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chillinjoan
01-15-2011, 01:39 PM
For every Single Person out there wanting to be married, is a Married Person wanting to be Single !!!!!!

For every Non-physical out there wanting to be human, is a Human wanting to be Non-physical.

LKG
01-15-2011, 02:30 PM
I suppose this is the grass is always greener on the other side kind of thing. We always want what we don't have because we hope it will make us feel better but sometimes when we get there we wish we hadn't left where we were! Although for some it does actually work out to be greener!!

I've come to the conclusion, in a very short time being on this forum, that nobody is ever satisfied with what they have but that is a good thing. When you get what you want you immediately look around for something else better and if you didn't you'd probably get bored quite quickly.

When you mention single/married people I suppose it is just the same. When you have one experience and you are satisfied you look for another so I'm now thinking the old belief married for life, etc makes you feel secure but not necessarily happy. Although if you are happy in your relationship you will be married for life - it depends on how like minded the people involved are.

Kellismom
01-15-2011, 02:40 PM
I had many adventures when I was single and couldn't wait to be married. Even when DH buys the wrong mustard (lol), he is better company than all of my old boyfriends. I guess it's all about "liking what you have, not wanting what you like.":smile:

zenjenn
01-15-2011, 02:51 PM
Wow...I would have agreed with that a few years ago. But as I've learned the abe material , I've learned that freedom is the basis of all desire in life. Therefore the constructs of the religious views of marriage do not allow in many ways for freedom to be expressed. Infact, abe makes it pretty clear that a lot about the ideas of marriage as we see it are very oothv. My current relationship is wonderful ...I adore him with all my heart. And if we part I will still love and adorehim with all my heart. Our definition of marriage is ...I really like you...let's keep this going. Working out great thus far...:-)

7flowers
01-15-2011, 02:57 PM
I've been married most of my life and have been single the last 5 years and have never been happier! I don't think I will ever get married again, at least not the way society defines marriage! I have an awesome boyfriend though!

David
01-15-2011, 03:11 PM
For every Single Person out there wanting to be married, is a Married Person wanting to be Single !!!!!!

For every Non-physical out there wanting to be human, is a Human wanting to be Non-physical.

Is this a Joanism or channeled? I Love it.

David
01-15-2011, 03:17 PM
I've been married for 30 years of my life. I like it a lot better. I did not realize how good I had it when I was married. I suppose I fall out of the typical niche in this group, but marraige to me is a very wonderful thing, more wonderful than being single, easily! Making it wonderful, having it BE wonderful takes only appreciation for how much easier it is to not feel AS wonderful being single. I know I fall out of the popular vote here, but it's how I see it. It's like having a power tool versus doing the job by hand, being married.

footprints on my way
01-15-2011, 03:54 PM
What an interesting thread!!!

Until recently, I couldn't really imagine to get married again. Having a boyfriend - yes. Maybe in the future even living together - yes. But marriage - which is supposed to last very long - you can't just break off as easily and without any consequences as in a non-commited love relationship - that was too much for me. I just couldn't imagine, to fall so deeply in love with somebody, and to feel so loved and appreciated by him, and to be so sure of us developing in such compatible ways over the years, that we could really stay happily together for 20 or 30 years, and even know that in advance...
But nowadays I'm learning more and more to really act true to myself in the presence of others. And at the same time I let them of the hook, and accept and respect their way of thinking and dealing with things. And in my view this is the basis for any longterm relationship: That both have the courage to really be themselves - and show the other one, how they really are and feel, whilst they don't expect the other one to change his/her behaviour for them. But I do nowadays expect that my ideal mate is capable of dealing with the intensity, openness and clarity of me. And that he has the clarity and the strength, to stay true to himself and nevertheless care for me, without doing things for me, he doesn't want to.
When I find a man like that, and we both fall in love, then I see a great potential for a good marriage (if we both choose this form of living together), because with somebody like that I could grow and follow my personal path without fear of loosing him or leaving him behind.
The funny thing is, that I have already attracted exactly such a person. He is not available, but the most wonderful driftwood for me, because his existance (and me meeting him after a very short time of being single again) proves to me, that there are men out there, who really match my personality and my wish for intensity, clarity, honesty, self-respect, caring for themselves and for me and for others...

So, yes, I could imagine to get married. I don't neccessarily need the marriage vows, but I really do want to live in a beautiful longterm relationship with my ideal mate. And right now, I believe, this will happen in due time. The Universe is already busy orchestrating everything perfectly for us :smile:

Love to all of you :s11:

Anne

chillinjoan
01-15-2011, 04:19 PM
yes David, it is a Joanism, it hit me this morning in twilight sleep as I awoke deep breathing unconsciously. It have never done that before.

So marriage for some, is proving to your mate that you are committed to them for life. Which is a false premise, if you ask me, not that you are asking me. You are not psychic. You can't promise something you do not know. I guess when you are new "In Love', you can't fathom not feeling that way about them forever and ever and ever.

Others stay in a marriage for the security of it, the contentment of it. They got their house, cars, kids, social circles, etc., even though they are bored with their mate.

There are those that are addicted to the newly "IN LOVE" feeling, and as it wears off, they are off to another new Love.

No right or wrong. It is whatever floats your boat. It is all expansion, all of it.

Me? I am at the point where I am ready to grow old with someone and play in the World's charms while doing it. I made my decision and now I'm sticking to it. (for now)

David
01-15-2011, 04:31 PM
Good channeling, Joan... I love that Joanism.

For me, marriage is the blissful state of partnership that cannot exist without the state of actual marraige. I know I am weird, maybe not even appear as "Abe" to some who may read this statement from me.

There is a special and wonderful relationship in a marraige that works. It includes a way and a vibration in living life, that as I said, simply cannot exist, or easily exist, without having that special type of bond with the rings and the actual legal status. It's all about the place of the Heart in another's life. I am old fashioned. Sue me! :)

There's a special place of heart that I miss not being married. I love being a part of a team of two, so close and so happy together. Two people co-creating and flowing pure positive energy, both connected to Source, are more powerful than a million who are not. One can get there, but like Abraham has said, like sex, "it's a lot more fun when there's someone else involved". This is true for all parts of life for me with a partner I REALLY love. Marraige is for the bliss of knowing that it is for life.

It's for the BLISS of it. And there is that for me, with another. And it's easier to get to bliss with a loving partner who says as I have, for better or for worse, holding the light always.

It's who I am.

Ali-bal
01-15-2011, 04:47 PM
David - I'm with you! I adore being married, I am always so glad to be married! For me (a total free spirit) the contrast and wisdom that I've gained from being married has just made me an even more powerful creator. Plus my DH is a great man, whilst he is not an Aber, he is so amazingly supportive of me. I also really love seeing that my focus on being happy (and that being the most important thing) has had a flow on effect to our entire family, my DH is thriving at work, my kids are happy, healthy, cheeky little beings, my family are happier, healthier, and my friends are going through a sort of shuffle, new ones coming in, old ones fading away or coming back into focus etc. Whoops, got a bit carried away there, had a bit of an 'a ha' moment!

Thanks for the tread Joan :)

chillinjoan
01-15-2011, 04:47 PM
so I am suing you David.

how do you know that it will last for life? You cannot control your mate's mind, heart, soul, or Escrow. You are a romantic David, very sweet and dear. We all want what you described. But the Divorce rate proves otherwise. You think they will stay with you because they believe it too, and wallah, the grass looks greener over there for them, and they are gone.

I do think, if you find the right one, there is no question or doubt throughout the entire marriage. It is just rare these days, not like in our parent's World. My parents had their 60th anniversary last year. Divorce was never an option in their minds. It is all in how your choose to see each other. Rarely, did I ever see a heated discussion, never yelling.

I have been on my own without dating for 9yrs. I have found myself completely. You can't touch this, it is too solid. Bring it on Daters! This Bombshell is ready!

David
01-15-2011, 04:58 PM
I see you observe!!
Okay, so does the rest of the world.

It's all about INTENTION. And I have been through life, 2 divorces, they were horrible things. Never again... I intend it. So this bombshell is ready to settle down and be partnered up... intention: Living Life in Love and partnership, not possible without a commitment that is real and lasting. Of course it may not last. Life in a body does not last. But relationships... they are forever. And my next one has all the benefit of knowing what I know now. No commitment other than knowing that there is only Love and Bliss in being real and connected, seeing The Truth of each other. That's the basis of us. Seeing the truth. And so there are no rules other than JUST that sight, and it stays. There will be cycles away from seeing the truth and that's okay. Marraige MEANS you keep with it through these cycles knowing they are cycles and the truth comes around again and again and again. I don't give up, I stay like a rock on the sight of the truth of someone I love. Marraige helps in the stabilty for me. I am strange that way. I have learned.

Just right. I intend it that way this time. It will be.

Kellismom
01-15-2011, 05:13 PM
You eloquently expressed how I feel about marriage. :smile: Been together 24 years and been through major contrast. Many different cycles. However, I expanded a lot when I was single. I had many interesting boyfriends and never lacked for male companionship. So I was ready to settle down. At the end of the day, we still like each other a lot and enjoy each other's company. :s13:

David
01-15-2011, 05:20 PM
Yes, it is true that there is expansion in having other relationships. It's like having a job, when you do the same thing every day, doing another job feels like expansion. There is that feeling, but the fact is with someone else, when the intent to explore new things is at the forefront, and there is exhilaration in your own life, there seems no need to re-invent the wheel with another person. It's all about what you see, how you feel, and what YOU choose to have as thoughts about your partner. It's all your choice all along. When there is a commitment, I don't see it as jail. I see it as testimony to how great the world is with another human there. I don't have that now, but no question, I will again.

Kellismom
01-15-2011, 05:28 PM
Paul Newman said it best (paraphrasing): "Why go out for hamburger when you can have steak at home?" LOL.
:laugh:

Merry
01-15-2011, 05:39 PM
Wow Joan this is like so Deep!!!

I agree with David and I would like to be married again. I was married for 32 years...have nothing against marriage...actually love the whole co-creating...doing things with...relationship. It was the controlling/verbal/emotional/mental/physical abuse that happened later in the marriage that finally drove me away. All that behind me...in my Vortex is a fantastic man. So yeah I would like to be a wife again...and this time...he can rub my back once in a while too.

In the meantime I am enjoying my single life.

chillinjoan
01-15-2011, 05:59 PM
Yes David, us both being in a couple of marriage.........well, we have learned. And I love the comment "THE NEXT ONE WILL HAVE THE BENEFIT OF WHAT I KNOW NOW" and vice-versa, for they too, had a life before us.

Mari, I want you to go up to Dan and give him a big fat kiss, and say "I Love You just the way you ARE".........and see the response you will get.

Kellismom
01-15-2011, 07:09 PM
Joan: Already done...but it didn't stop at kissing! :laugh:

birds of a feather soar
01-15-2011, 08:46 PM
This is a good thread, before Abraham teachings and after 7 years of marriage I did not want to do it again, even if my boyfriend at the time want it I just run the opposite direction lol, but now and after reading your post David it must be great to co-create with someone that wants the same things you want. I feel so free and different than how I was before. I'm a new person and so much in touch with me that I will not make the same mistakes. I'm rethinking this and I might be opening a new chapter in my life and stop resisting :laugh::s13::kiss:

serenity2000
01-16-2011, 12:37 AM
It's like having a power tool versus doing the job by hand, being married.

OMG, I'm soooooo resisting the urge to type something (in)appropriate!!!!!!!

serenity2000
01-16-2011, 12:42 AM
I know I am weird, maybe not even appear as "Abe" to some who may read this statement from me.

Dearest David!!! You, of all people, should know there's no place better to shine your weird! It's a preference, plain and simple and there's zero to justify. Your preference is lovely.

abraham-nicks
01-16-2011, 02:05 AM
OMG, I'm soooooo resisting the urge to type something (in)appropriate!!!!!!!

OMG u read my mind hehe, I was gonna do that too!!!
Big love to all- married, singles, divorce, whatever you be!!! Tis all fabby!!!!!!!! Xxxxxxxxx

paradise-on-earth
01-16-2011, 03:18 AM
Hi all, great exchange!

Iīm completely with David, that the problem is the observing of "reality"- and the not knowing how to get, do or become EVERYTHING YOU WANT. Since I am able to more and more let go of the first and believe without doubt in the second, I have NO trouble in my now 30 year old relationship (26 years married) anymore. Every contrast is a new chance for more bliss- and we take it! :o

Our sexlife was always wonderful- but it is even better now than EVER. We treasure the other one as our best friend, and the most interesting person we ever met. There is a growths in both of us that keeps us new and refreshed. The changing of our bodys, our both knowing, visions, ideas is wonderful to observe. I simply donīt understand the arguments of others, around that the "old wellknown" partner is getting boring... it is about deepening the relationship endlessly, and wow, is this NOT-boring!!!

Even before Abe we worked out amazingly- we simply KNEW that we wanted to be together for ever and kept true to our wish, and this was stronger and soo much more delicious than every other temptation.
Or- even more- there is no temptation to choose something less, isnīt it?

It might help that we are true soulmates- feeling best in each others presence, almost beeing "alone", but double when you understand what I mean :). The harmony between us is soothing, blissful, incredible. But we had hard times, too. I was fallen in love wih his best friend for 4 years and we all together decided that there had to be the freedom to live every love. My husband and me came out of this "free love"-time stronger, more in love with each other and deeper trusting than before. We learned about true, unconditional love, than.

Afterwards I met my twinsoul and was VERY mixed up in the first time about this, but my husband was backing me up unconditionally, gave me trust, gave me the most wonderful help, in listening, reassuring me, laughing with me, cheering me up... since than there is no fear of reality in our relationship anymore. What is, is: And it is always a chance for even more bliss, if we take it as one.

We both believe in freedom and beeing freeminded. That is the basis, together with our love and our intention. We both have the fastest streams with BIG dreams, we raised 4 children that had challenging illnesses, we went through 30 years of beeing almost broke all the time (and never feeling "poor" :o) and always worked out more than great. What else could come, that could us depart? We KNOW what we want. We enjoy so deeply what we have. Ohh, we would be sooo silly to give up what we have! ;);)

To everyone who has the same dream: Go for it. IT IS POSSIBLE- if your focus is on your vision and on believe, love and all the other good feelings!
:hearts:

Editing: I GOT it in the last 6 months (:bow: thanks to this Forum) that I can do the same on all issues of my life, per example the "beeing broke"-part :laugh:. And I take this knowing to work, now! YES it works!!!

paradise-on-earth
01-16-2011, 04:02 AM
The Essence of My Every Desire Can Be Fulfilled... If your time-space reality has the wherewithal to inspire a desire within you, it is our absolute promise to you that your time-space reality has the ability to deliver, in full-manifested form, the reality of the desire it has inspired. Any and all desires can be fulfilled unless you are holding yourself out of alignment with your own desire. The feeling of competition or shortage, or limitation of resources, means you are out of alignment with your own desire.
--- Abraham
Excerpted from the book, The Vortex

...the daily quote, thought it would fit in, here... :laugh: :laugh: :wave:

footprints on my way
01-16-2011, 04:29 AM
Elke - Paradise-on-earth,

I can't believe this! I just copied the Daily Quote of today to include it in my reply to you....

The Essence of My Every Desire Can Be Fulfilled... If your time-space reality has the wherewithal to inspire a desire within you, it is our absolute promise to you that your time-space reality has the ability to deliver, in full-manifested form, the reality of the desire it has inspired. Any and all desires can be fulfilled unless you are holding yourself out of alignment with your own desire. The feeling of competition or shortage, or limitation of resources, means you are out of alignment with your own desire.


And there you are... already quoting it in this thread before me... :wave:

I am going to write an email to you, Elke, but right here, right now I want to state towards you, towards the others, who read this thread, towards David, who so convincingly and truely believes in the bliss of marriage, that yes, this possible dream which you describe is exactly what I want to live. I want to feel close to my ideal mate for a lifetime, being able to become the best Anne I can be in his presence and with him by my side, whilst giving/leaving him the space to be himself completely and to grow and develop as is good for him.
I am a child of a marriage, which I have perceived to be dominated by one person. Maybe that wasn't true in their view - but it was in mine. And I have decided from very early on, that I want to live something different. But in the past I have attracted relationships, where the man of the time felt either weaker or stronger than me, or not caring or close enough, or not really able to feel his Inner Being, etc... But I do feel now, that I have learned from the beauty and the contrast of the past relationships - and from the single times, I had in between. And from all the wonderful people/friends I have met on my way, from whom I can learn by appreciating their example, their ideas, and the challenges, they provide me. So now is the time... and now HE and I are already moving towards each other.


Elke, David, I very much appreciate you two encouraging me deeply and substantially with your views of marriage. And the Daily Quote of today is backing up all three of us plus everybody else who shares our dream...

Love and hugs to everybody who cares for being loved and hugged by me


Anne :snuggle:

paradise-on-earth
01-16-2011, 05:19 AM
Iīm so happy I could give you an example that makes you even more sure, Anne! This helps. But you already KNOW in your heart that it is possible- and this is the only thing you REALLY need: Your own wish, desire, vision. :hearts: ALL the best for you!



I do think, if you find the right one, there is no question or doubt throughout the entire marriage.

I just can speak for my own, but there have been SO MANY doubts and questions in my marriage!! A good lasting marriage is no fairy-tale. It is not about "beeing charmed" and because of this beeing invincible, AT ALL.

We had so many times where I would have given up, when there wouldnīt have been my promise- that "saved me". I think THIS is why they call it a sacrament: If you DECIDE to do something, you deliberatly aligne with it. This is only between you and you. And this gives you strenghts and pulling power when you are mixed up or OOTV in any way. My marriage was not just sunshine, lollipops and roses- we had quarrels OFTEN, he "broke my heart" more than once and so did I to him. And oh, how often we yelled at each other! All this is ok. Anger is better than selfdisempowerment ;);). And every contrast gives you a new, MORE wonderful bouncing-off-point.

Beeing mixed up is better than a happy face sticker! And then- as always- you need to come back into alignement yourself and let everybody else off the hook.

As I said- I believe a wonderful partner helps. But the thing that REALLY does the job is your commitment to your dream. Abe says that we could work out with EVERY person in the world, if we would want to! So, it is not about "finding the one". It is about YOU, believing in your dream and looking for it, in every moment- :laugh: at least remembering to do this in the moments where you are mixed up.


I have found myself completely. You can't touch this, it is too solid.
I love that you found yourself! Just want to add: I did the same. You can get there in infinite ways. :allgood:

chillinjoan
01-16-2011, 11:26 AM
Cecilia from the Australian Cruise gave us some notes that I feel reflect everything we are wanting.

"WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE THINGS WE DO NOT HAVE" instead of LOOKING FORWARD TO THE THINGS WE ALREADY HAVE, because we sent out our rockets. But do not dwell in those thoughts, live FULLY IN THE NOW, ALWAYS NOW, APPRECIATING NOW. When you look forward, FEEL the Full-fullness of it, not that you don't have it now and am looking forward to the having of it.

Kellismom
01-16-2011, 02:47 PM
POE: "A good lasting marriage is no fairy-tale. It is not about "beeing charmed" and because of this beeing invincible, AT ALL."

Yes Elke! You are 100% correct. Twice we almost split up in 20 years but somehow, it always worked out. I have to laugh when our acquaintances hold up our relationship as the ideal. :smile:

If they only knew. LOL. :laugh:

chillinjoan
01-16-2011, 06:24 PM
it's encouraging to see good marriages, it helps so much to keep faith they exist and are going strong. Your mates are very lucky people.

Kellismom
01-16-2011, 06:29 PM
Joan: Dan takes lots of Prozac to keep going! Hahahahaha!!! :laugh:

serenity2000
01-18-2011, 07:29 AM
A good lasting marriage is no fairy-tale.

Sounds like a false premise to me. Whilst we're not privy to what goes on behind closed doors, Jerry and Esther were living happily-ever-after long before they connected with Abraham and even go so far to say in their books that they didn't argue and just lived and loved together before discovering the Seth books. My husband and I have had what we consider a fairy-tale marriage and we've been together for 14 years.

The whole point is one gets what one expects. If one expects trials and tribulations or ups and downs as a "normal" part of marriage.... One of the things on my list was to have a life-long love affair with my husband and I'm getting it.

paradise-on-earth
01-18-2011, 08:24 AM
Sounds like a false premise to me. Whilst we're not privy to what goes on behind closed doors, Jerry and Esther were living happily-ever-after long before they connected with Abraham and even go so far to say in their books that they didn't argue and just lived and loved together before discovering the Seth books. My husband and I have had what we consider a fairy-tale marriage and we've been together for 14 years.

The whole point is one gets what one expects. If one expects trials and tribulations or ups and downs as a "normal" part of marriage.... One of the things on my list was to have a life-long love affair with my husband and I'm getting it.
Agreed, and my Kudos for you!!

My "italian-marriage-style" was before I really got the Abe-teachings. Since than all my relationships have extreme smooth sailing, too. Youīr very right! I think I added this part because I donīt believe in the "charm"/bewitchement of finding the "one and only", and than never beeing in doubt again. And I donīt believe in happy face-stickers (as "we are happy because we never fight", heard this soo often in rotten relationships!) either.

But if there is a happy heart behind the happy face- when there is hope and believe and trust and interest and faszination for the other one and thatīs the reason for not fighting- THATīs what we all shoot for! :yes: :hearts:

footprints on my way
01-20-2011, 02:47 PM
Hi all,:vortex2::vortex2:

I'm happy to announce that I am not single anymore... right now :smile::laugh:

How did this happen so fast? I haven't got a clue... I only know, that after all what I have stated here and in other places about what I really want in a relationship, I went dancing again yesterday night to the place, where I use to go dancing now for many years on nearly every wednesday night. But during the last few months I haven't been there because I didn't want to run in my "former" boyfriend, and because I wanted to care for myself well by attending a lot of good spiritual therapeutic events like chakra-power-dancing, integrative breathing, "path to your Inner Being/Inner world - group", and many more. Besides the effect of the experiences there on my personal growth/development I met a lot of very nice people their, who obviously were on a similiar path as I... this made me feel connected and loved, and encouraged my vision of my ideal relationship being possible. I also noticed that I changed. At home, with my daughter, I could feel and prove, that I let her of the hook easily, but nevertheless my vibration of being alighned with the tasks I asked of her and with keeping the peace in our house was so strong, that for several weeks now we had the best time ever...:s1:
Also in other places with other people I more and more practiced, being authentically me, even if they didn't like that or couldn't take that so well, and I felt more and more proud and at peace with the way I acted, whilst peacefully and respectfully understanding and respecting their way of thinking and acting... So I felt, I was getting closer and closer to my dream relationship.
And yesterday night I decided to go to my normal well known dancing place again to just have fun. The music is great their, and I know so many people their, that I never feel alone, plus one of the DJs there gives me a free entrance ticket, whenever it is her turn... So yesterday it was not spirtitual or therapeutical development for me... It was not looking for a partner either... I was just going there for the fun of it. Enjoying myself fully. And then...after having enjoyed myself already for quite a while dancing to the wonderful music, enjoying the beat and the rhythm, enjoying the smiles and hugs of the people, I knew, enjoying enjoying enjoying... I ran into my "former" boyfriend. And we went out to the terrace together and talked. It felt so good, so natural, so happy, so positive. He also had some great news. He was still working in the job, which had originally been cancelled to him a few months ago... And he had stood up to a negative neighbor who had been complaining and taking stuff and money from him... And had the landlord backing him up with this... So he really had some good things going in his life.... So we both were feeling very much in the vortex. The only thing which felt wrong for me, when minute after minute of wonderful connection and feeling of belonging together passed, was, that we didn't touch each other, hug each other, cuddle with each other... Well, some hours later that changed. We both felt, in a marvellous moment, that we are meant to be. That we are right for each other. That we want to be together. That there is love flowing between us in such a trusting and knowing each other way which is hard to describe... So we are together now. And we have the feeling and the trust, that it will work out now.
I can't look into the future... but definately feel that he is the right Mr. Right Now. I hope and believe, that there will be so many "right nows" after "right nows" from now on, that we will smile at each other in 30 years time and say: "Do you remember when we split in the summer of 2010? Oh well, it probably was neccessary at that time for us to grow and really understand what we have in each other and in ourselves..."

Hugs and love to all of you here:s13::s11::snuggle:

Anne

susu
01-20-2011, 03:03 PM
Footprints I love your story! Authentically YOU is definitely where it is at! Wow - makes me all goose pimply!

I love this marriage / single thread. It just shows me again and again that there is no wrong.

I love Davids description of marriage. This is what I want too. That is what I have always wanted and felt that marriage could give me. I finally found the right guy for me. He wants marriage the way I do - to share that view with another is incredibly affirming and expanding. Thats what it is like for me - every day is a new expansion!

CR
01-20-2011, 03:19 PM
Hi all,:vortex2::vortex2:

I'm happy to announce that I am not single anymore... right now :smile::laugh:

How did this happen so fast? I haven't got a clue... I only know, that after all what I have stated here and in other places about what I really want in a relationship, I went dancing again yesterday night to the place, where I use to go dancing now for many years on nearly every wednesday night. But during the last few months I haven't been there because I didn't want to run in my "former" boyfriend, and because I wanted to care for myself well by attending a lot of good spiritual therapeutic events like chakra-power-dancing, integrative breathing, "path to your Inner Being/Inner world - group", and many more. Besides the effect of the experiences there on my personal growth/development I met a lot of very nice people their, who obviously were on a similiar path as I... this made me feel connected and loved, and encouraged my vision of my ideal relationship being possible. I also noticed that I changed. At home, with my daughter, I could feel and prove, that I let her of the hook easily, but nevertheless my vibration of being alighned with the tasks I asked of her and with keeping the peace in our house was so strong, that for several weeks now we had the best time ever...:s1:
Also in other places with other people I more and more practiced, being authentically me, even if they didn't like that or couldn't take that so well, and I felt more and more proud and at peace with the way I acted, whilst peacefully and respectfully understanding and respecting their way of thinking and acting... So I felt, I was getting closer and closer to my dream relationship.
And yesterday night I decided to go to my normal well known dancing place again to just have fun. The music is great their, and I know so many people their, that I never feel alone, plus one of the DJs there gives me a free entrance ticket, whenever it is her turn... So yesterday it was not spirtitual or therapeutical development for me... It was not looking for a partner either... I was just going there for the fun of it. Enjoying myself fully. And then...after having enjoyed myself already for quite a while dancing to the wonderful music, enjoying the beat and the rhythm, enjoying the smiles and hugs of the people, I knew, enjoying enjoying enjoying... I ran into my "former" boyfriend. And we went out to the terrace together and talked. It felt so good, so natural, so happy, so positive. He also had some great news. He was still working in the job, which had originally been cancelled to him a few months ago... And he had stood up to a negative neighbor who had been complaining and taking stuff and money from him... And had the landlord backing him up with this... So he really had some good things going in his life.... So we both were feeling very much in the vortex. The only thing which felt wrong for me, when minute after minute of wonderful connection and feeling of belonging together passed, was, that we didn't touch each other, hug each other, cuddle with each other... Well, some hours later that changed. We both felt, in a marvellous moment, that we are meant to be. That we are right for each other. That we want to be together. That there is love flowing between us in such a trusting and knowing each other way which is hard to describe... So we are together now. And we have the feeling and the trust, that it will work out now.
I can't look into the future... but definately feel that he is the right Mr. Right Now. I hope and believe, that there will be so many "right nows" after "right nows" from now on, that we will smile at each other in 30 years time and say: "Do you remember when we split in the summer of 2010? Oh well, it probably was neccessary at that time for us to grow and really understand what we have in each other and in ourselves..."

Hugs and love to all of you here:s13::s11::snuggle:

Anne

I really LOVE your story, too! Thank you!

TinaMe
01-20-2011, 03:28 PM
:smile: Never married, I'm single and content to be. Not a lot of interest in dating and mating for me at this point in my life.

My parents have a really great marriage - 39 yrs and counting. David's posts reminded me a lot of them. They see each other as friends and partners. They still dance and act like they are in love - its wonderful to see.

My Dad's words of wisdom - Love, Lust and Like. Lust will come and go or even love sometimes. But when you really like someone, really like being around them, really enjoy them - that's the key in his opinion. Sounds pretty right on to me

chillinjoan
01-20-2011, 04:04 PM
me?
single
married
single
married
single
married
widowed
happy

David
01-21-2011, 12:24 AM
Oh, Joan, how I LOVE it when you use the "H" word.

David
01-21-2011, 12:28 AM
Footprints I love your story! Authentically YOU is definitely where it is at! Wow - makes me all goose pimply!

I love this marriage / single thread. It just shows me again and again that there is no wrong.

I love Davids description of marriage. This is what I want too.

It's all about holding the vision that creates a solid desire for each other that won't blow away in a strong wind.:beautiful:

paradise-on-earth
01-21-2011, 01:19 AM
Oh, Joan, how I LOVE it when you use the "H" word.

:laugh: in Germany the "H"-word means marriage! :hearts:
Thanks, David, for the inspiration for me, to go so passionate into describing my joy of marriage. Your wonderful rampages uplifted me to ramble about my own blessing!! :hearts: All the very best to YOU, in this subject- it surely "is done"!

Anne, CONGRATULATION!!! :hearts:

christineepiphany
01-21-2011, 02:54 PM
Hi, guys!
FootprintsOnMyWay/Anne told me about this thread~ thought I'd add some delish to the dish!

Recently, I really noticed that the very thought of not finding another romantic relationship, not finding my ideal mate, someone I could marry and live happily ever after with, the very thought of not having that again made me feel kind of quietly desperate and quite tense, inside. I hadn't noticed before what INTENSITY I was putting on the idea of finding (or not finding!) my mate!

That clarity was my clue.

I also noticed that many people who've been at this Abe stuff for a long time, often come to a sort of high vibration where they just don't NEED anyone else in the same way that we think we do ~ they've got plenty of friends, they've got loving marriages, they've got all the things they want....but they don't have the need for any of it. They're happy in themselves.
That's what I want!!!!
I don't want to feel that I HAVE to be married to feel a certain bliss~ any more than I want to feel that I HAVE to be single to attain bliss!
Single is not "better" to me, and
Married is not "better" to me,
SELF-HAPPY is best, to me!

And my happiness doesn't depend on any, ANY outside circumstance!!!

Whenever I get caught up in thinking that one particular outside circumstance is necessary for my real happiness, I DELUDE MYSELF. I am lying to myself. I am passing off my own responsibility to myself, onto someone or something else, where it doesn't belong!

It's just me and the Light. That's all. That's the thing that counts the most.
Me and the Light.

Ironically, since coming to feel this way, I feel even closer to manifesting my ideal mate.
But I know I would still be wonderfully happy, even if he didn't show up~ I know that, now.
With this focus on Self-Happy, I'll be wonderfully happy single, and I'll be wonderfully happy married. It'll be about the same, only with different enjoyments present in each.

I'm hoping that when I manifest my ideal mate, I'll remember this emphasis, this truth, this truth that all that really matters is just Me and the Light, together forever. Truly!
Because finding happiness along with someone else can be very distracting and can ultimately cause me to lose my central balance. And I don't want that to happen, again.

When I'm with him, I want to be able to remember that it's still up to me to make my own happiness. I don't want to fall back into old instincts to automatically depend on him for my good feelings and happiness.
That don't play anymore!
I'm free inside, now!~

(So beautiful that I found this freedom around the time of our "Martin Luther King, Jr. Day", a day to celebrate, "Free at last!")

susu
01-21-2011, 04:33 PM
It's all about holding the vision that creates a solid desire for each other that won't blow away in a strong wind.:beautiful:

Very true! When I was married to my ex we had different visions of the perfect marriage. This split in vision created a lot of contrast that we, being immature, just were not prepared to deal with.

My aber mate, however, shares my ideal and we find a lot of mutual satisfaction jointly feeding that vision.

Through the former contrast I was awakened to the knowledge that there is not right or wrong, but without true compatibility (marriage ideals), that desire for one another that wont blow away in a strong wind wont exist.

Holding the vision can be different for each couple - but they have to share the vision.

paradise-on-earth
01-21-2011, 04:53 PM
but they have to share the vision.

...this feel romantic, but it is not abish. Itīs all about YOU and YOU only, what you will attract. One who is connected is "more powerfull than millions who are not". Abe points out again and again, that we shall not give a rip, what another one thinks- if one is aligned, thatīs enough to get for this one what ever he/she wants. I start to REALLY experience this. And if you donīt trust that- you can never let the other one off the hook!

susu
01-21-2011, 08:44 PM
I disagree that it is not abish - vision = vibe. You still have to be in the same wave length.

honeypie
01-21-2011, 09:35 PM
I'm enjoying this thread! David what a lucky woman your wife is/will be.

I have never been married or even lived with someone. Lived with a lover that is I like the idea of getting married and would like to try it. :). All the reasons I thought I wanted marriage are now gone! That's a good thing! I now know that I want to responsible for my own happiness and know that I don't want to be rdponsible for another's. My relationships to date plus Abe have taught me that.

I do sometimes do ROA's on previous lovers and that feels really good!

I don't feel single though. Maybe that word meant something to me before that I don't feel now. I think before it meant "something's missing" to me that is. And now nothing is missing! Or it could be my little sidekick. I don't really have time to feel single. :laugh:

paradise-on-earth
01-22-2011, 01:51 AM
You still have to be in the same wave length.

You will end up there, but you donīt have to be there to begin with!

If one is ITV he/she pulls the disconnected one easily over, or "up" into the wished vibes. Or at least provokes the wished behavior, as long both are together. To the other one this feels blissfull, the at the beginning-connected-one gets what he wants.
If both are connected and ITV about what they want, LoA finds a way how both get what they want. It is a rare thing that one part of the couple vibes out/leaves the partnership, because he/she is REALLY no match (but then there will vibe in an other partner who IS a match to the connected one).

Abe refers to this unendingly- it is a common question.

footprints on my way
01-22-2011, 05:42 AM
Christineepiphany wrote:

"Whenever I get caught up in thinking that one particular outside circumstance is necessary for my real happiness, I DELUDE MYSELF. I am lying to myself. I am passing off my own responsibility to myself, onto someone or something else, where it doesn't belong!

>snip<

With this focus on Self-Happy, I'll be wonderfully happy single, and I'll be wonderfully happy married. It'll be about the same, only with different enjoyments present in each.

>snip<

When I'm with him, I want to be able to remember that it's still up to me to make my own happiness. I don't want to fall back into old instincts to automatically depend on him for my good feelings and happiness.

Yes, Christine, a big YES from me to every word of you. I'm now going to find out, whether I can live up to that. I already know from experience, that I can be very happy as a single, very connected to ME/my IB/the source of all life. But I still have to find out, whether I can stay as connected and as happy in a relationship with somebody, who has his own mind...

But right now, I'm very much on the hopeful side as far as this is concerned. My IB loves my mate, and my IB loves me. So when I stay connected to my IB, everything should work out very well. Let's see how it goes...

Hugs, :snuggle:

Anne

paradise-on-earth
01-22-2011, 11:27 AM
:laugh: in Germany the "H"-word means marriage! :hearts:

I got a request regarding this- and so I want to add for clarity: No, the term "happy" is not coercivly used together whith "beeing married" in our country :laugh: :laugh:
What I REALLY wanted to say is: Our word for "marriage" is "Heirat". And so our H- word means (translated) marriage! :laugh:

lauralight
01-22-2011, 11:39 PM
I had many adventures when I was single and couldn't wait to be married. Even when DH buys the wrong mustard (lol), he is better company than all of my old boyfriends. I guess it's all about "liking what you have, not wanting what you like.":smile:

Um, what's a "DH"?

serenity2000
01-22-2011, 11:42 PM
DH = Darling or Dear Husband
DW = Darling or Dear Wife
DD = Darling or Dear Daughter
DS = Darling or Dear Son

paradise-on-earth
01-23-2011, 02:05 AM
DF = dear friend
DR = dear rascal
Dr = doctor
dh = das heißt
DH = Desperate Housewives

:laugh: :hugging: soooorry, Iīm so silly! :kiss: :wave:
(Oh, and when youīr mad at him you can just write "H" without "D" in front, that says EVERYTHING... ooops, except when you come from germany. There the "H"- words means NOT beeing mad at each other!) :exactly::laugh:

paradise-on-earth
01-23-2011, 02:12 AM
Jooooaaaan!!

Clean up your thread, PoE is here and messing all up, again!! :hearts:

chillinjoan
01-23-2011, 11:40 AM
DJ - Dear Joan

all cleaned up..................in my head, anyways..........

paradise-on-earth
01-23-2011, 01:44 PM
hehehe...
:wave: from DE

christineepiphany
01-26-2011, 08:42 AM
Anne, I have full confidence that you can keep your connection with Source the #1 priority in your life, regardless of what shiny, wonderful relationships you manifest!!

Treasure
01-26-2011, 04:09 PM
I am married and enjoying it very much. For years I swore I would never get married and I had great short and long term relationships, dalliances, stolen moments, you name it. I married at 37 years old for the first time and that's part of why it's working for me. I had fun being single and available for so many years that my desire for something different presented itself. I attracted the marriage and I'll stick with it for as long as it feels good and makes me happy.

The important thing to remember is that married or not we all have relationships with other people in our lives and how we see those relationships makes all the difference. If we are choosing to see the good in others then our relationship with that other feels good.

You make the relationship, the relationship doesn't make you.
Every choice is the right choice if it feels good.

Rusalochka
01-26-2011, 04:13 PM
Sounds like a false premise to me. Whilst we're not privy to what goes on behind closed doors, Jerry and Esther were living happily-ever-after long before they connected with Abraham and even go so far to say in their books that they didn't argue and just lived and loved together before discovering the Seth books. My husband and I have had what we consider a fairy-tale marriage and we've been together for 14 years.

The whole point is one gets what one expects. If one expects trials and tribulations or ups and downs as a "normal" part of marriage.... One of the things on my list was to have a life-long love affair with my husband and I'm getting it.


Love, love, LOVE this!! Thank you!! :)

David
01-26-2011, 04:44 PM
As you see is as you believe. As you believe is as it is. Treasure's statement resonates simple and completely...

"You make the relationship, the relationship doesn't make you."

I have done it with the relationship making me. Not good. Thank you, Treasure! Well said.

vikramdsalokhe
02-04-2011, 03:27 AM
Hi,
I am resident of india having born and brought up in orthodox hindu family. From my childhood i was very attracted to girls ,woman however never
dared to express my feelings due to my anxietic and timid nature . now also i some time fears to meet stranger peoples more specifically girls.Now i am 32 yrs old and still don't have any girlfriend or any sexual interaction. This makes me feel low many times.
I am seeing for a suitable bride for me ( good looking,educated,cultured) belonging to my community. I am having good thing that bride needs, good software job, very good amount of material wealth like house,land ,gold etc along with good family background.
Even though i am having all good stuff in me i am experiencing complete denial from brides or there family for my marriage proposal. Coming in contact with abe i came to know that reason is my resistance and the vibration.

Can any body please help me on how i can release the resistance and get into favourable vibrations where i can get my desired life partner.

Regards,
Vikram

homelesswombat
02-04-2011, 01:40 PM
My gf wants to get married and I don't. I'm not 'against marriage' at all it just doesn't feel right for me. I'm pretty calm about this difference between us, but she gets really upset whenever the subject comes up. I've tried the 'remain calm and don't pay attention to the problem' tactic for about 2 years now, but the anxiety only seems to heighten for her as our relationship develops.

Anyone got insight on this?

And Vikram I might suggest just going out and 'mixing it up' with others as Abe says. I have never painted a painting, played a song, or created anything perfect the first time. Relationships are the same. I couldn't tell exactly from your post but I hope you're not just walking up to them and asking them to be your bride. Trust me that never works I've tried. Basically what I'm saying is go find a girl and don't put the expectation of "life partner" on her.

Personally I LOVE Abe's summation of how they would propose a marriage: "I like you pretty good, let's see how this goes."

paradise-on-earth
02-05-2011, 05:44 AM
homelesswombat,
I had wonderful success in those few issues I was really crossways with my DH in explaining to him how he can get what he wants: He has to go ITV with the issue!

Itīs pretty easy to get that clear. Your gf knows that she is not really willing to give into something, when you "motivate" her through beeing angry and upset, either. Or whining and begging. This behaviour is NOT attractiv! Everybody knows this deep inside, and DH got that very fast. He already knew that I wasnīt "playing" in the old way, anymore, and of course he was frustrated about it. He simple didīnt know otherwise, he did not know how to get in his power.

I explained him how irresistable someone is, who is ITV. How wonderful it feels to surrender to him. How inspiring he is, how powerful. And DH is not even an Aber ;)!
So- if she wantīs something, itīs HER job to get it. Itīs her job to get ITV about it. Tell her, if you and she are interested in doing so, even teach her, and let go of the rest. Go ITV yourself anyhow, without needing her to "behave" (let her off the hook).

Wow, DH getting all this had an incredible satisfying effect on our partnership... it stopped his whining and feeling sad for himself almost immediatly. And he got strong, selfconfident and sooo much more sexy... :big_grin: he somehow become superman on all this issues. Really.

Iīm pretty sure you wouldnīt resist supergirl when she wantīs to be married with you? So- teach her how she can become supergirl and seduce you...
and enjoy!
And if she donīt wants to learn it- be happy in and with your own way.

homelesswombat
02-05-2011, 04:02 PM
Thank's for the advise, Paradise! I couldn't agree more. I've been doing the 'lead by example' thing for a while, just being relaxed whenever she gets tapped out by our talks. But since the subject seems to agitate her more and more perhaps I'll have to tell her directly with the "get ITV and it'll be fine!"

AmberLovesAbraham
02-06-2011, 01:07 AM
This is the first time I've read this thread....I feel two different ways:
1. I love my relationship with Kevin....if I told you what it has endured, you would/may be surprised...never have I loved a man like this before...he was DEFINITELY in my Vortex....BUT I DIDN'T REALIZE THIS AT FIRST...many ups and many downs...but never did my love leave...
2. Before I met Kevin, Oh My!...I was a freedom-seeking woman who wouldn't/couldn't put up with lovers who liked to cage me in...I ALWAYS felt like they were trying to cage me...and I am not submissive at all...a threat to freedom and my own growth would usually come out as tears, frustration, rage, or...just leaving. I had no problem just picking up and leaving if I felt the slightest degree of impending suffocation....I detested and hated control over me...and I refused to allow it. This period in my life led me to many different types of men...which helped me to choose what I really wanted...I love the lovers I have had because they have helped me DEFINE my preference....AND NOW I HAVE MY PREFERENCE!!!!
3. Sometimes I still wonder about what my life would be like if I were single....I guess it's because of my sense of independence and privacy - which I adore - but maybe it is because of the very first sentiment from Joan that I feel so drawn to...Thanks, Joan. Sometimes I divide myself...I love this life and yet will wonder what that other life would feel like.
Love Always,
Amber

paradise-on-earth
02-06-2011, 02:33 AM
You know what gets even more clear while I read yours?
It just klicked on ZennJennīs thread about freedom for me http://www.abeforum.com/showthread.php?21305-what-does-freedom-look-like-feel-like-to-you-show-me!&p=325214#post325214 (http://www.abeforum.com/showthread.php?21305-what-does-freedom-look-like-feel-like-to-you-show-me%21&p=325214#post325214)

Freedom means beeing without resistance. And it is MY OWN choice to feel this way- no matter what!
WOW. Thanks, all of you!

chillinjoan
02-06-2011, 11:56 AM
Freedom in a relationship should feel like your are completely free to cuddle, and then go out with friends without having to feel concern that your mate is feeling abandoned or hurt. That is their job and I want a man that not just knows that and understands it, but lives and feels it happily. For he has things in his life that he does without me also.

anneinwonderland
02-07-2011, 02:11 PM
I'm in a relationship like the one Joan describes. My partner and I have been in an exclusive relationship for 6 years and neither of us have any intention on getting married. We don't desire to not be together, but we aren't comfortable with a church/government/piece of paper dictating our relationship. We daily make vows to each other. Every morning my vow to may partner is that I will be in control over my own happiness. Every morning he vows the same. If he is having a contrasty day that is his business and I go about my life. I don't expect nor desire him to join me in my contrast. We are both musicians and if he has practice every evening it makes my heart sing knowing he's doing something he loves. I don't worry if he's not in bed next to me at 2am because it means he's out having a good time with his bandmates. He does the same for me. When we do spend time together it is quality and joyful because we do not expect the other person to make us happy. Getting married or not getting married will never make you happy. You have to be happy FIRST and then whatever relationship you desire WILL come because it HAS to. It is the law like everything else. There is nothing right or wrong about/with marriage. It is what you vibrationally make it.

Treasure
02-10-2011, 04:00 PM
There is something to be said for that government piece of paper though. It gives you rights you usually don't have uncoupled. You can make medical decisions and receive public assistance benefits on their behalf, social security, disability, medicare and veteran benefits can be paid to a spouse. You can add your spouse to company insurance plans and be extended bereavement benefits. There are visiting rights if they are in jail or in intensive care. There can also be some tax benefits.
I like to think of it in the terms that many gay and lesbian couples fight so hard for the marriage rights that some of us take for granted sometimes. I'm not saying marriage is the right choice for everyone but that "legal" aspect can be very helpful if you are committed to someone you think you may be with for a long time.

Kellismom
02-10-2011, 04:34 PM
Vikram: Do a BOPA on yourself and turn this over to your Universal Manager (ie, placemat process)! Then try to get relief and trust that your perfect bride is coming to you! :)

http://www.abeforum.com/showthread.php?17006-Placemat-Process

chillinjoan
02-10-2011, 04:36 PM
gotta agree with that Treasure.........it's all in what makes you feel the best and that paper makes many feels more secured and committed, and that is subject to change at any given moment. You can only Promise that you'll promise to hold to your promise. Not too promising, is it.

Treasure
02-10-2011, 06:00 PM
The hubs and I lived together, bought vehicles and a house and had all our finances linked for 7 1/2 years before we decided to get married. We could have lived the rest of our lives unmarried but we decided that marriage would eliminate some red tape down the road with illnesses, injuries or death. It's just a perk you get and is by no means a measure of the solidity or healthiness of a relationship. It just means I got to buy a wedding dress and get married on our boat in a 10 minute ceremony. :) All in good fun.

anneinwonderland
02-11-2011, 09:55 AM
I absolutely see how there are government perks for for those who believe there are in a marriage license. Neither of us think of contrast down the road like illness, injuries, and croaking. I'm sure everything will be ok and the Universe will move mountains for us in any situation that might have issues. I understand for some a marriage license brings great relief and that is always good. Taxes don't bother me, I don't plan on having children, and I have no need for the relief of the paper. It's all good. And you can't get it wrong. At the end of the day getting married or not getting married doesn't mean you are committed to your partner. Beyond that, the only committment that truly matters is the one you make to yourself. For any relationship to "work", be it validated by the government/church or not, it is all about vibration and alignment PERIOD.

chillinjoan
02-11-2011, 10:35 AM
I know 2 couples that got divorced so IRS got MUCH less, and they got more benefits or their kids, since he was now a single Mom.
That was LOA too, and they found a solution, without harboring guilt or shame.

footprints on my way
02-12-2011, 09:14 AM
anneinwonderland wrote:
At the end of the day getting married or not getting married doesn't mean you are committed to your partner. Beyond that, the only committment that truly matters is the one you make to yourself. For any relationship to "work", be it validated by the government/church or not, it is all about vibration and alignment PERIOD.

I couldn't agree more. Among the "best" loving longterm couples I know, are more unmarried than married couples. And I only count those, with whom, when I watch them, I really have the impression, that after over 20, 30 or even 40 years of being together, there is still a lot of love flowing between the partners (as well emotionally as physically), and there is personal development and space for activities for each of them as an individual person as well as this obvious feeling of connectedness, which also feels good to me as an observer. I love those couples, who make me feel welcome in their shared home, with all the loving energy noticable there, but who also give me the occasion for an induvidual talk with just one of them. Those are the couples, where I feel, that each of them is connected well with who-he/she-really-is AND with each other. The BIG WE is important as well. But in my nowadays view, this is only possible and beneficial, if this BIG WE is formed out of two BIG MEs...

Those couples serve for me as model or example of how I want my current love relationship to develop. For me, the marriage vows really have no importance right now. On the contrary, the old fashioned vows of "For the good and for the worse..." really scare me... Because they seem to give the individual partners the right to behave as bad and unsuccessful as they can, and they still have to stay together...
And I know, what I am talking about. In my former marriage I got very ill after a traumatic experience, and of course my partner felt, he had to stay with me... Believe me, I hope, I will never ever again behave so horrible and demanding and also disconnected towards any partner again... But I didn't know better at the time. I didn't have the depth of understanding, I have now. I felt helpless towards what was happening with me. And my husband was stuck with me at the time. Well, when I got healthy again and was able to find some good and paid work, our marriage was completely broken, and I split with him.
Well, nowadays I see this time as a starting point to connect more and more with "WHO-I-REALLY-AM". And I am very happy for all, that I have experienced since then, and feel, that I am now ready for a good, loving and ever expanding love relationship with a partner, who like me, gives the best he can, and who really understands about the connection about him and his Inner Being. We both are bound to loose this connection again and again for a few minutes or hours or maybe even days... But knowing our IBs, and knowing about the value of the connection with our IBs, I believe, that our lifes and our relationsship are bound to get better and better and better with every day that passes...

AND THE BETTER IT GETS THE BETTER IT GETS :jumpsprinkler::trampoline::rainbow::down::down::h urra::aniheart::ohm::ohm::dancing::dancing::dancin gballoons::stargazing::stargazing::soar::soar::sta irway::stairway::ilu::ilu::vortex2::vortex2:


Love to all of you :s11:

Anne