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Thread: Question about not feeling emotions

  1. #61
    Super Moderator WellBeing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EaseAndFlow View Post
    I understand. Where I'm getting stuck is actually in the identifying what thoughts I'm actually thinking in this moment.
    Are you telling us that you don't know what thoughts you're thinking? (Because the rest of your reply says otherwise.)

    Quote Originally Posted by EaseAndFlow View Post
    I want to get to the place where I could say that this is true for me:
    Shouting “Get up, you little dummy!” when you fall down has been a tactic which hasn't been helping you all that much, has it? And it doesn't feel “good” to you when you do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by EaseAndFlow View Post
    But my second-guessing myself is not making it easier. I don't know I can do this (is that a discouraging thought?) .
    You tell us.

    Does that thought open up possibilities for you? Or close then down?

    Does that thought empower you? Or limit your power?

    Is that thought pointed towards what you want? Or towards what you don't want?

    Quote Originally Posted by EaseAndFlow View Post
    Anyway, I understand that it's necessary to learn this connection before I can create my emotions in the way I really want to.
    You just did it. Right there, in the sentence above. You thought “I don't know I can do this.” You noticed that you didn't feel “good” when you thought that. You even went so far as to guess where it might be on the Scale (even though that's not a necessary part of applying these teachings).

    It sounds and looks like to me like you can feel if you're feeling “good” or otherwise, like you can pay attention to some thoughts that you think, and like you can make the connection between your “not good” feeling and the thoughts that you're thinking. Good for you.

  2. #62

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    Thank you so much, WellBeing. I know you're right, it's just a bit weird for me, it's like I've been thinking my emotional guidance system to be in a different ways than it actually is.. I really want to learn how to feel my way on every subject.

    Sometimes though, it seems like my resistance is just about "I don't feel good, and I don't like that I don't feel good because I really want to feel good and it's better to feel good than not" etc and my IB isn't going to join me in those thoughts.

    The bubbles process always seems like a promising way to feel better, but it often have the opposite effect for me. It feels like it's draining my energy and I feel more tired after I try that game for 10-15 minutes. Regular meditation usually doesn't feel worse for me in that way, and maybe a little better sometimes but never so that I feel my cork floating. I want to feel how it feels when my cork is floating so I can feel some more contrast to my usual habits of thoughts..

  3. #63
    Super Moderator WellBeing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EaseAndFlow View Post
    I really want to learn how to feel my way on every subject.
    If you can do that on one subject, then it's merely a matter of time and practise before you can do it on more and more subjects...just like you’ve learned every other skill in your life.

    Quote Originally Posted by EaseAndFlow View Post
    Sometimes though, it seems like my resistance is just about "I don't feel good, and I don't like that I don't feel good because I really want to feel good and it's better to feel good than not" etc and my IB isn't going to join me in those thoughts.
    We call that “pushing against”--in this case, pushing against your emotional guidance and what you're feeling. The opposite of “pushing against” is “making peace with where you are.”

    But all of those thst you've just reported are all thoughts that you're thinking. You know what thoughts you're thinking. You've just answered your earlier question.

    You're also having emotional guidance as you think those thoughts. So, in the same way that you can pay attention to your thoughts, you can pay attention to how you feel (And you've already shown yourself and us that you can do that) in the same time as you think those thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by EaseAndFlow View Post
    The bubbles process always seems like a promising way to feel better, but it often have the opposite effect for me. It feels like it's draining my energy and I feel more tired after I try that game for 10-15 minutes.
    You can talk yourself out of it by telling your “draining/tired” story or you can talk yourself into it by calling that same experience “...releasing my resistant energy, my stress, my angst, and I feel more relaxed….” The choice is yours. So far, you've been choosing stories which hem you in and eliminate options for yourself. But you have other choices which have been pointed out to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by EaseAndFlow View Post
    Regular meditation usually doesn't feel worse for me in that way, and maybe a little better sometimes...
    Then, meditate.

    Quote Originally Posted by EaseAndFlow View Post
    ...but never so that I feel my cork floating.
    The goal is to
    feel BETTER,
    not your cork floating. That “better” that you've just reported IS your cork floating.

    Is it floating all the way on the surface on the water? Probably not because you're so practiced at taking negative score that you probably stop, just in the same way you're dismissing it here.

    But you DO feel better and you CAN do it deliberately through meditation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ;958064
    I want to feel how it feels when my cork is floating so I can feel some more contrast to my usual habits of thoughts..
    I don't even understand your point here because it flies in the face of what you've been telling us and it's not part of these teachings. You already have Contrast and in that Contrast of thoughts and emotions you can tell which feels worse or which feels better. You simply want to jump to the top of Marc’s tall building. When you're tired of doing that, you can take the stairs.

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    Thank you so much WB

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by WellBeing View Post
    But all of those thst you've just reported are all thoughts that you're thinking. You know what thoughts you're thinking. You've just answered your earlier question.
    I meant more in the sense of when I notice that I already feel not good and I ask myself "what did I think that made me feel like this?" and being able to "see" the thoughts I was thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by WellBeing View Post
    You're also having emotional guidance as you think those thoughts. So, in the same way that you can pay attention to your thoughts, you can pay attention to how you feel (And you've already shown yourself and us that you can do that) in the same time as you think those thoughts.
    So the emotional response comes instantly when thinking a thought? Even if you already have some negative momentum going on from previous thoughts? It's confusing when I think I'm changing the subject but not noticing any difference in how I feel as I do. The only reasons that would make any sense about this is that either the "new" subject feels the same as the "old" subject, or I'm not really changing the subject or I don't know how to pay attention to differences in my emotions.

    Quote Originally Posted by WellBeing View Post
    I don't even understand your point here because it flies in the face of what you've been telling us and it's not part of these teachings. You already have Contrast and in that Contrast of thoughts and emotions you can tell which feels worse or which feels better. You simply want to jump to the top of Marc’s tall building. When you're tired of doing that, you can take the stairs.
    I understand what you mean. I don't know if I can agree with you about that I'm trying to get to the top of Marc's building all at once. If I changed my focus and the result of that change in focus was a feeling of relief (so that I could honestly say that I felt a little better), I don't think that I would dismiss that.. So I don't really think that really is my issue.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by WellBeing View Post
    No, emotions are not in your body. Emotions are the experiences of things like Anger, Hope or Joy, but those are simply labels that we place on the varying degrees of "better" or "worse" that you're describing. The labels don't matter.
    Are our emotions always not in the body? Or can they be, but not neccessarily? I'm asking because on another website I found this: "Now compare those two statements. And ask yourself "Which feels better?". Does the first specific statement feel better or does the second, general and less dramatic statement feel better? And feel into your chest and stomach area where you usually feel things. If the second statement feels better, you should feel relief now."

    And in a thread on this forum about Focus Wheels, I found this description: "The essence of Focus Wheeling for me is to FEEL my way through a Focus Wheel. To have a feeling response in my body and gut."

    I feel like I don't know how I can pay attention to how I feel. I feel like if I'm not sensitive to the way I feel. I don't know what to "do" to become more sensitive so that I can begin to use my guidance system in the way really I want to in my vibrational work.

    I also saw an article about the "downsides of being extremely intelligent" (I don't believe that IQ tests are the best meter of intelligence, but when I've done such tests I've got pretty high results) and one of those points where "You often think instead of feel" and I could somewhat relate to that. But it's not what I want. I want to be a feeling person, not a thinking person. I would like to learn how I can use my guidance system so that I can determine if my thoughts feel better or worse. Any suggestions? Thanks.

  7. #67
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    Hi dear one E&F!

    I'm not WB -- I'm the other WB -- i think it's an interesting question. I "feel" my emotions mostly in a tension or release sort of way. So if I were doing a focus wheel and I found a good next statement, I would feel the release in my belly and sometimes shoulders and jaw. I might also sigh or breathe deeply. An upstream thought will feel the opposite, a tensing of my body.

    As a point of interest, I often feel Joy and other high flying emotions in my heart. OOTV can be physically uncomfortable and sometimes painful, especially in the heart and gut, like I've been stabbed.

    I don't always feel in my body, but my body is definitely a partner in this work. But we are all different in how we respond to energy. I wouldn't think someone who didn't feel these things is deficient -- just different.

    Hope that's helpful.

  8. #68
    There are many MANY teachers of non-dual orientation that talk about emotions as the way the body translates thoughts. Vedanta has a quite accurate mapping of gunas and stuff of that sort that I don't know much about. It is actually true that whenever you have a thought that doesn't feel good you can infallibly register it as a body contraction. And a common technique taught in the non-dual circles is, when you have a negative feeling, to leave for a moment the story in the background and focus on the contraction, and I'd guess, because the contraction per se feels neutral, the momentum slows down and then stops. One could just take a round of sudoku for that matter, and it would equally work. But it's a way you can deal with it that works pretty good.



    About the high IQ, I've chewed on that theme recently on the base of some direct observations and some studying I did, because my son has been certified high IQ in Mensa, and my husband, it comes out, is high IQ too. I didn't do the test because I wasn't drawn to. It was a school my son was applying to that requested it, and his father stumbled into finding it out for himself while dealing with this for him.

    I wouldn't say that there is any intrinsic tendency to be cut off from feelings, but there are life experiences that can be difficult for a high IQ and they are very little talked about or sympathized with, because few even know that they exist, and because it's often assumed that if these people are so intelligent they should be able to deal with their problems. But alignment has very little to do with having a high or low IQ, and these gifted kids, left on their own devices, may end up and often do as very unbalanced adults. That's why Mensa in many countries (including UK and US) is now opening up to kids and opening dedicated sites, so as to give them information and support.

    Thing is in schools, there is a lot of concern on making it possible for people with learning problems to be able to keep up, and it is a good thing, but no thought whatsoever is spent for those kids who are faster learners, who have to sit for hours and be bored to death while the teacher repeats for the tenth time the very same thing. Most of these kids are un-diagnosed and they don't have a parent who before any trouble arises goes to talk to the teachers and say: let him have more autonomy and you won't regret it. And suggests to the kid to have fun with his imagination if things get too dull.

    Anyway, not knowing anything about alignment, it's easy, beginning with Boredom, to end up to Powerlessness and feel very isolated from the other kids, because one time too many you've taken relief from the pain by being judgmental about their stupidity - and so you shut down emotionally. I don't know if any of this has happened to you, but for ex my husband did end up like that in high-school, he didn't completely shut down because he lived on the sea with beautiful forests all around, and nature harmonized him a lot, but he's got monumental resistances around people, a mix of arrogance and feeling of isolation which is quite common in high IQ adults. These sentiments seldom transpire, because he's too smart to act them out, he comes through as a very kind person (which he is, under his defenses) but people of course respond to his real vibration, and he resents that he can't really be himself around anyone, alternatively thinking that it's their fault or that it's his. It is just momentum and it can be all lined up. I am mentioning all this in case you can relate.

    So the only reason why people shut down emotionally boils down to sufferance. Particularly intelligent people just do what all other people do when they go upstream, only with more intensity because of their perceptiveness and with a more acute sense of isolation because they seem to have problems that no-one can relate to.

    But you can also see that as a fast learner, once you find a way to apply this information about being deliberate that works for you, you can become very very good at aligning. It's not a case that Creyk, who I think one could guess was a high IQ kid, has had so much success with alignment. It's not random that you too are so young and already in touch with this information, and so committed to it. Precociousness is indeed a beautiful gift.
    Last edited by rose essence; 11-20-2016 at 03:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WellBean View Post
    Hi dear one E&F!

    I'm not WB -- I'm the other WB -- i think it's an interesting question. I "feel" my emotions mostly in a tension or release sort of way. So if I were doing a focus wheel and I found a good next statement, I would feel the release in my belly and sometimes shoulders and jaw. I might also sigh or breathe deeply. An upstream thought will feel the opposite, a tensing of my body.
    Hi WellBean, nice to see you

    Thanks for taking the time to let me know how you perceive your emotions when you do your "work".

    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    There are many MANY teachers of non-dual orientation that talk about emotions as the way the body translates thoughts. Vedanta has a quite accurate mapping of gunas and stuff of that sort that I don't know much about. It is actually true that whenever you have a thought that doesn't feel good you can infallibly register it as a body contraction. And a common technique taught in the non-dual circles is, when you have a negative feeling, to leave for a moment the story in the background and focus on the contraction, and I'd guess, because the contraction per se feels neutral, the momentum slows down and then stops. One could just take a round of sudoku for that matter, and it would equally work. But it's a way you can deal with it that works pretty good.
    Hi rose essence! Thank you so much for your helpful post! I appreciate it very much
    Last edited by EaseAndFlow; 11-20-2016 at 09:44 AM.

  10. #70
    Super Moderator WellBeing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EaseAndFlow View Post
    Are our emotions always not in the body? Or can they be, but not neccessarily?
    I really don't know what more I can add to the answers I'd already given to you the several other times you asked me these questions. So, I'm going to recap my prior answers to you and then you can ask questions which can move this discussion to the next place for you. (I'm going to start my recap in a very general place, for the sake of clarity, but I will get to your questions. So, bear with me.)

    When you think a thought, that thought has a relationship to the thought your IB is thinking about that same subject. The extent to which those two thoughts agree or disagree creates an emotion for you. Now, stick with me. It doesn't matter much what label we assign to that emotion. All that matters that it's created.

    We never think one thought in isolation. We think lots of thoughts, all the time, in rapid succession. In AAIIG, Abraham estimated that we think trillions of thoughts in a day. So, you had your thought and it created for you your emotion. Right on the heels of your first thought, you had another thought, with its own relationship to the next thought that your IB is thinking about that same subject, and you create another emotion for yourself. At that point, you can compare whether your second thought feels worse or better than your first thought. (And, in your threads, you've shown yourself and us that you can discern which thought feels worse and which thought feels better to you.)

    [I'm going to skip over the part where, as you focus on a thought--regardless of your emotional guidance--the LoA responds to your vibration and brings you more thoughts, details, etc. which match that vibration, which builds vibrational momentum for you. I know you know this part. But I'm going to bring this back into my conversation in a bit. I want our other friends to be able to follow along with the complete story.]

    Something which may be confusing you (and, I've seen this most commonly among non-native speakers of English) is a limitation of the English language (rather than a piece of these teachings). In English, we use the same word,”feel,” to describe 2 different experiences: we “feel” our emotions and we “feel” our physical sensations. Just because English (the language Esther translates Abraham's thoughts into) uses the same word doesn't mean the experience is the same.

    Any physical sensation in our physical body is a manifestation. All of our manifestations occur when we think our thought for long enough and consistently enough that the LoA adds to it and adds to it until we build up momentum. As we build up this momentum, our experience gets “bigger,” meaning our experience gets more detailed, more discernible, more tangible. So, your emotional guidance might go from an experience of “off” or “ick” (or thrill, on the flip side) or simple discomfort, to the point where you can this discomfort feels different from other discomforts you've felt and so you can label it “Worry” to distinguish it from those other discomforts that you've labeled “Fear,” to the point that you're manifesting a physical sensation. (Some people talk about their worry as “butterflies in the stomach” or their thrill becomes their “heart leaping.” These are merely descriptions for others’ benefit.)

    The progression doesn't end there. (And I'm not saying the following to spook or to threaten you, but to continue the example.) You can continue your vibration and your momentum to the point where you're affecting the alignment of the cells in your body. Your manifestation of “butterflies in your stomach” can get “bigger” to transform into a manifestation of an ulcer or chest pains and so on.

    My point is there is a progression and where you are on that progression is where you are. As Abraham remind us, where you are is all right. It is easier to tend to our vibration before we have developed our unwanted momentum (but, even then, we have bubbles, meditation and naps, for those moments).

    You can look to a point earlier in this progression than you have been for your emotional/vibrational guidance. And this is important to you personally for these reasons. (This is just a partial list.)

    When you look at your manifestation of your physical sensation for your emotional guidance, your manifestation of your physical sensation is no longer real-time guidance because you need to let your momentum build to its manifestation point for you to do something about it. As your momentum building to your manifestation of your physical sensation, you're thinking many, many thoughts and probably on many topics. So, when you decide to do something about your manifestational guidance, you then have to trace back to see if your butterflies-in-your-stomach is about your finances or that rude cashier or about your appearance or this “work” or…. At that point, the best you can do is make a guess and hope for the best, which has been one of your experiences.

    Another side of the idea that “your manifestation of your physical sensation is no longer real-time guidance” is that you have to wait until you slow down and shift the momentum that you have underway to the point that you manifest a different physical sensation. That can take time. Let's assume the best case scenario, Abraham's new figures for the combustion point: 14.5 seconds for a new thought to join it, 58 seconds for a manifestation. Can you see the difference in those numbers? They point out that, when you're basing your guidance on your manifestational evidence, you would “have to” hold and maintain your new vibration for a minimum of almost a minute before you might have a new different manifestation of your physical sensation. Whereas, when you look to your emotional guidance, you have your “answer” in as long as it takes for you to answer, “Does this thought feel worse or better than that thought?”, which you can do, and you can do it in as little as 14.5 seconds.

    Now, I'll admit that I played a bit with statistics here to make my point because my example was “the best case scenario.” Fortunately for us, our bodies are much more stable organisms. If things actually happened in the way that I just presented, we would not be living the robust health and well-being that we live. Our bodies make astounding, real-time adjustments every moment of every day, but our physical experience of our sensations tend to persist (like all our manifestations tend to persist).

    So, it's common that it will take some persistent focus to slow down, re-orient and then rebuild your momentum to the point where you are able to manifest a different physical sensation for yourself. If you stop yourself (for whatever reason) before you manifest your different physical sensation, then it would seem to you that nothing had changed and you come to some of the erroneous conclusions that we've been trying to wean you from.

    Another pitfall of relying on your manifestations of your physical sensations as your guidance is that, as dynamic and complex as our bodies are, we have a limited number of physical sensations available to us and then we have to interpret them. There was a famous psychological study (which has itself been studied and replicated over the years) which demonstrated that the physiological reactions for excitement and fear are the same. Our pulse quickens, our blood pressure typically increases, we tend to perspire more, etc. This study took this idea and showed that we experience these sensations and then we use our story to determine whether we label these sensations as “fear” or “excitement.”

    Now, when we apply Abraham's teachings to this study, we can see how this happens. But now let's work this into your question: Of you're relying on your manifestation of your physical sensations as your vibrational guidance, what if you label your sensations inaccurately? What if you label your accelerated pulse, your knot in your stomach, your sweaty palms as “fear” when you might actually be “excited”? That would be like following the driving directions from Phoenix to San Diego, when you're already in San Diego. Sure, you could do that but it's going to get you lost (or, at least, confused) if you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by EaseAndFlow View Post
    I'm asking because on another website…
    It’s not my place to speak for someone i don't know, who may or may not understand these teachings, especially on the basis of an out-of-context quote. However, I believe that I have shared above an accurate description of what Abraham teach us.

    Presuming that the author of your quote does understand these teachings, perhaps they are willing to be less accurate about these teachings as their method of teaching them. That's their choice but at some point they're going to have to go back and restore the accuracy they've left out of these teachings. I personally have found such an approach to be more confusing to people learning these teachings and sometimes can be misinterpreted as Abraham being inconsistent, so I personally prefer not to “teach” (too strong a word) that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by EaseAndFlow View Post
    I feel like I don't know how I can pay attention to how I feel. I feel like if I'm not sensitive to the way I feel. I don't know what to "do" to become more sensitive so that I can begin to use my guidance system in the way really I want to in my vibrational work.
    I understand what you're saying here because this has been a drum that you've been beating for some time with us. We've pointed to examples in your own experiences (that you have told us about) where you have, in fact, been able to pay attention to how you feel. We've highlighted examples from your own threads as evidence that you are able to use your guidance system. We've worked with you to untangle some “extra” (and unhelpful) ideas that you'd bundled into these teachings. We've explained how you create your reality with the stories that you tell yourself and that, by telling this story (which I think we've pretty much debunked), you are creating more of a reality where you can't do these things. We've suggested a number of different methods (Bubbles, your music, Rubik's cube, naps) you could use to take your hand off the hot stove so that you can learn, for yourself, the difference between discomfort and relief (even though you've been able to identify that for yourself in some of your posts). We have suggested ways to tell this story so that it would be more accurate and might feel better. Yet, you seem to prefer to come back to this same (inaccurate) story.

    So, I ask you, since this is so important to you and since I know you revisit your old threads, why will you not start collecting the evidence that has already been discovered for you in your old threads and use that evidence of this thing that you want so very much to start telling a new story for yourself, a story which opens the door to and points you in the direction of what you want? That's got to feel better than telling your old crappy-feeling story which keeps your feet nailed to the crappy-feeling place you clearly don't want to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by EaseAndFlow View Post
    I also saw an article about the "downsides of being extremely intelligent" (I don't believe that IQ tests are the best meter of intelligence, but when I've done such tests I've got pretty high results) and one of those points where "You often think instead of feel" and I could somewhat relate to that. But it's not what I want.
    Perhaps not. But in the process, you have given yourself another wonderful demonstration of the LoA. It makes sense (Doesn't it?) that an article whose title is focused towards Unwanted (“Downsides” is another name for “Unwanted,” isnt it?) is going to bring to you more Unwanted for you.

    Now, I'm going to bet that, as you read that article, you probably had some emotional guidance in the form of “I can relate...but I don't want that” and you had, at that moment, an opportunity to put down your article or watch a cat video. Or maybe your desire to “relate to” that author was stronger than your desire to feel better and you overrode your emotional guidance of “...but I don't want that” so that you could finish the article. That's all right. Maybe you had to wait until the end of the article to recognise your emotional guidance of “...but I don't want that.” That, too, is all right.

    Bit, at some point, you understood your emotional guidance of “...but I don't want that.” How do you respond to your guidance and your realization of “...but I don't want that”? Because it seems like you're bundling it into your story about this other thing that you don't want, building a bigger, stronger structure when you would prefer to be dismantling that structure.

    For example, you could use your knowledge of these teachings to remind yourself that when you know what you don't want, you know more clearly what you do want and focus there. You might recall what Abraham say about the Peanut Gallery and you might decide that, whilst that Peanut was entitled to create the reality that they wrote about, you are free to create a different, more pleasing reality for you.

    You asked for suggestions. How are you using the suggestions (like the ones I've just listed here; they're not new to you) that you've already attracted? That's how all of us learn this stuff.

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