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Thread: Dealing with past & unfulfilled desires from the past.

  1. #51
    Super Kitty Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    Marc I'm doing my best, I'm not ignoring or dismissing what you've written I just find it difficult to take it in an absolutist manner which is what you're asking me to do,
    Then it's time for you to start writing less and listening more. No one expects you to accept everything at this point. You don't have the capability of making a big jump like that. What we DO expect is that you have the willingness to STOP actively dismissing what we're telling you and to at least ENTERTAIN the possibility of what we're suggesting. Really, we get it that at this moment you don't yet see any way to have what you want. What we're saying is that you really do have the ability to feel a little better anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    I am trying to feel better I've done several of the processes for example I can transcribe the whole of process 22# I did on paper here it's pages long, but still from my perspective I'm trying to feel better by trying to leave behind my desires I have harboured for over a decade or more as a young man, by accepting my youth is gone since as you say I can't make the hands of time start running backward.
    We're not suggesting that you need to leave behind your desires -- in fact, that's not possible. Rather, what we're saying is you do have the ability to step back from the details you're clutching so tightly onto. I get that you think that the ONLY way you can possibly be satisfied is by having this set of conditions that seem impossible. I'm asking you to entertain the possibility that this conclusion is incorrect. The point of Abraham's teachings is that YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO CHANGE YOUR PERSPECTIVE. If you care about the way you feel, you really do have the ability gradually to shift your perspective into progressively better feeling ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    I garner from what you've been saying that if I try to feel better and do all the processes and vibrational alignment I'll get the desires that I'm feeling, believing, thinking about etc. but my point is this, ok, but it's not going to be fulfilling for me having a substitute experience at this point. If it's going to be something like feel better, meet smoking hot girl aged 30, forget about your previous thoughts and desires I can tell you it won't do, since there will always be that scratch I'm unable to itch that I desired as a young man i.e. young girls and meeting and growing old with a young girl. I wouldn't be satisfied.
    Again, I get that this seems true to you from your current perspective. Abraham's main point is that this notion that the itch is unscratchable simply isn't true. As you do the emotional work to feel BETTER, you'll gradually learn that the satisfaction you think can only come from these particular conditions We can all relate to the fact that you don't believe that this moment, but you've got to be willing to at least ENTERTAIN the idea if you're going to get anywhere with this.

    Here's the good news. Part of the reason that all of this feels so terrible to you is that the way you're insisting that things work is the absolute opposite of the way things work. I mean, you've got this idea that somehow being in your early teens and twenties and doing what you wanted to do with women of a similar age is somehow the absolute peak of experience and anything short of that is just a sad diminishing of what you really want. That's not how things work at all. To the contrary, the contrast you've lived and fear that you'll be dissatisfied will end up benefiting you. As Abraham explains, whenever you have experience, you automatically ask for improvement and Source ALWAYS agrees with your request. When you're not satisfied, you ask for things to be more satisfying, and you've done this over and over and over and over again. That means that once you finally are able to let go of your resistance, what's coming will have the ability to be much more satisfying than if all of this had not happened. Now I get that you don't believe that yet. You've made that very clear. My point is that if you're willing to let go a little bit and at least be willing to explore the idea that maybe Abraham and we are telling you how things really work rather than how you fear they work, then you can start moving in the direction of what you want. What you want doesn't require the hands of time to move backward, it really doesn't. You're going to have to take that on faith at first and be willing to feel BETTER if you're going to make any progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    It'd be rather cultish to ban me outright for not fully agreeing or rather for finding it difficult to accept certain premises or claims set out in the Abraham Hicks books.
    \_(ツ)_/
    We're not here to convince anyone of anything. If you're interested in applying what Abraham teaches, great. This is the right place for you. If you're committed to insisting that you can't possibly have what you want, great. If so, this isn't the right place for you. Whatever conclusion you reach about us from that really isn't any of our business. There's no point for any of us to waste our time if we don't share similar intentions.

    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    I suffer from depression almost constantly, my baseline is not boredom but low level sadness and grief. It is an emotional sickness I can have positive thoughts and still feel terrible, at which point I just urge myself to keep going.
    That's because when you're in depression or grief, you can't leap all the way to "positive thoughts." LOA won't allow you to make a big jump like that. Abraham lays that out in Ask and It Is Given, when they describe it like being a journey from one city to another city in another region. You can't simply get instantly from where you are to the other, but you could get in your car, or on your bicycle, or simply walk, point in the direction of where you want to go, keep going and eventually you'll get there. If you were in Liverpool and wanted to go to Rome, that's something you can accomplish.
    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    I've been in a pretty horrific situation in the last 4-5 years not to mention the suffering for the last 10 or more. My intention is to get into a position where I can start dealing with the issues I've outlined above, I want to do this by meditation
    I agree that meditation is probably the best place for you to start. So go learn to meditate.

    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    I'd like to believe outright now that I can fulfill my desires with young girls etc. (not to mention my other desires) before settling down but at the moment I find that very difficult to accept.
    Yes, you've made that QUITE clear. Nevertheless, to use that analogy of the road trip, that's no more than saying you're in not in Rome, but still in Liverpool. If you're willing to get over the fact that you're still in Liverpool, you can move in the direction of Rome.
    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    Since I have several handicaps and I am somewhat in a trap I was hoping that this forum could help me as a guide or pointers (and I have already received many with gratitude) and that eventually when I am able to I might help others too.
    We're a discussion group, not a help line. That's why we keep referring people back to reading Ask and It Is Given, because that's the comprehensive guide to how things work. It's up to you to educate yourself, we can't do that for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    In order to do the above, I need to find some footing and some grounding, I am heavily in debt in fact by trying to help others (my family) and by not being selfish & I can't pay the debt back in 5 years of normal working, I'm also exhausted from fighting trying to save the business and I'm unwell.

    So what I'm hoping is the Universe can help me, I need a significant amount of cash pretty fast, somewhere to put my head down where I'm on my own (it's madness where I am now), need help to decide which city, this so I can begin focusing on myself and getting better, mainly so I can begin meditating (which is impossible where I am at the moment) but also working on myself in other areas, exercising etc.
    I'm sure we can all understand why you wish your basic conditions would sort themselves out first so you can start feeling better, but things don't work that way. You're going to have to start meditating even though things are the way they are. The answer there really isn't any different from your original question -- these things aren't going to change for you just because you insist you need them to be different in order to feel better. You're going to have to find ways to feel better even though things haven't changed. That's just how things work.
    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    This is my intention being here, once I've got the basics sorted I can start dealing with the bigger issues. I've been fighting for so long I'm pretty tired I've fought myself bloodied to the bone and while I have been a master of defence I have no victories to show for it, otherwise I wouldn't be coming onto a forum asking for help after having read a series of self help books over the course of a year or more.
    Then go start meditating and come back when you're ready to actually start applying what's in those books. I'm not saying that to dismiss you or be unkind. It's just the reality that none of us here have the ability (nor would it serve you) to "help" you in the ways you mean. We don't have any spells or potions or vibrational voodoo that's going to make a big pile of money magically appear, or to solve your living situation, or to transport you back in time so that you can hump some hotties. We certainly can remind you that if you're willing to GENUINELY feel better that things will improve for you. Nevertheless, you're going to have to take those first steps, whether it's meditating even though the conditions aren't necessarily conducive to it, or reaching for thoughts that feel BETTER (for example, anger feels better than sadness). We can't do any of that for you. You've got to have the willing to educate yourself and apply what you learn, and there's no amount of "help" that's going to make up for that if you're not. All of that is up to you.

  2. #52
    Marc, I am listening but from your last post it's clear you're either misinterpreting what I've been saying or not actually listening to my issues with all the processes and teachings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc
    I'm not saying that to dismiss you or be unkind. It's just the reality that none of us here have the ability (nor would it serve you) to "help" you in the ways you mean.
    I did not mean help from you or anyone on this forum... or anyone directly. What I meant is help from above, some of the issues are too big for me to get my head around, I'm actually talking directly here about process #20 so turning it over to the universal manager, my problem is with the implementation and holding of requests with an attitude of expectation, since it is a lot of effort to keep my mind off being depressed. The example given within the universal manager page describes me exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc
    We don't have any spells or potions or vibrational voodoo that's going to make a big pile of money magically appear, or to solve your living situation, or to transport you back in time so that you can hump some hotties.
    Excuse me if I may, but that is the premise in the books and from what I've been reading throughout the forums, i.e. the manifestation of outrageous outcomes? I quote "there is nothing you cannot Be, Do or Have"... And as for humping young hotties, come on Marc that's not what it's directly about, it's the socialising and fun at that age etc. that doesn't repeat later in life, need I go on...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc
    I mean, you've got this idea that somehow being in your early teens and twenties and doing what you wanted to do with women of a similar age is somehow the absolute peak of experience and anything short of that is just a sad diminishing of what you really want.
    Maybe not teens but, 20s yea that was the time the prime of my life, I'll never be as good looking and get as much attention as I did then neither will the opposite sex, and I'll never have as much opportunity for socialisation as I did then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc
    Nevertheless, you're going to have to take those first steps, whether it's meditating even though the conditions aren't necessarily conducive to it, or reaching for thoughts that feel BETTER (for example, anger feels better than sadness). We can't do any of that for you. You've got to have the willing to educate yourself and apply what you learn, and there's no amount of "help" that's going to make up for that if you're not. All of that is up to you.
    This is what I've indirectly been getting at, I am trying to feel better via various means...

    ...it's simply not possible for me at the moment to get into a systematic meditation practice to effectively silence my thinking at the moment and find some peace... so my goal and intention is to move into a position using a lot of what I've learnt from Abe teachings so that I can do so.. just imagining this makes me feel better..

    ...furthermore if it really is possible to fulfill my desires as a young man i.e. party, socialise & the rest of what occurs in your early 20s with people that age (it's not so much about age but the places and things I'd like to do and attend predominantly are filled with young people, older people my age are not there) and not I repeat not fulfill as substitute or 2nd rate experiences occurring in a round about way, and not one requiring me being delusional, then yes the feeling I get is one of hopefulness, I might say even excitement and positive expectation, the same feeling I had aged 19 going into that decade (before depression hit me) or 23 going to uni (once I even had depression), if it is really possible despite the odds looking sorely against me due to my age then yea I get hope in fact I get the inspiration to sort every aspect of my life out so I can enjoy these experiences to the fullest...

    ...if however it's just a method of getting me to "feel" better in order for me to forget or modify the conditions I wished to experience (because they were presenting themselves) and experience substitutes then yea understandably it's not going to cut it for me and I'll have to go down the route of acceptance that my desires can't be fulfilled. I will by the way do the same as above and embark on sorting my life out, I will just give up on my desires to experience young girls at least once in my life - and I'll try to use therapy and various means to get over this feeling of loss and grief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc
    I get that you think that the ONLY way you can possibly be satisfied is by having this set of conditions that seem impossible. I'm asking you to entertain the possibility that this conclusion is incorrect. The point of Abraham's teachings is that YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO CHANGE YOUR PERSPECTIVE. If you care about the way you feel, you really do have the ability gradually to shift your perspective into progressively better feeling ones.
    ...The above is not the same as teaching "there is nothing you cannot Be, Do or Have"... which then becomes a disingenous statement. If it is just about changing perspective am I to presume I can live in my own fantasy world completely ignoring the peanut gallery - a gallery with whom I actually want to participate with??

    We're a discussion group, not a help line. That's why we keep referring people back to reading Ask and It Is Given, because that's the comprehensive guide to how things work. It's up to you to educate yourself, we can't do that for you.
    Precisely, I realised this is in fact not a discussion about my problems or a help line, but a discussion questioning many of the premises set out in the Ask and It is Given and I've read it twice now and referred back to it umpteen times.

  3. #53
    Jewel M.'s Avatar
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    Hi sailorboat,

    You are using a lot of logic in thinking about what you can have, but you must bypass logic. And we all tend to use logic, but logic limits what you can perceive.

    Get into the feeling state of what you want, and forget about how it can happen.

    Your physical appearance transforms daily, but you may not notice it. One morning, I looked in the bathroom mirror and my face looked very round, and then I glanced down and then back up...and my face looked more oval....in seconds. I saw a very tall man turn to an average height while I watched him on the street. I was looking at the way he held his hands....and then shoulders, and then when I looked at him again he was an average height. He suddenly looked very vulnerable....while his body had been tense before. I took his sudden shrinkage in height as communication to me that he did not feel so "big"...so on top of the world.

    Time is malleable. I've turned back the clock about 25 minutes or so just from a desire to have more time. I didn't consciously do it....the desire was there for precisely that amount of time. Who says you can't wake up in the past some day.....before this illness happened....back in your younger self....at whatever timeline that was....and begin from there to live your life....without even knowing that you experienced this particular timeline?

    I have flown in the air and landed at the top of a city bridge on a bright sunny day....in a lucid dream, and it felt very real. I am nervous about heights in life, but in my dream fearless. Learn lucid dreaming....you can experience anything there. Now, do I want to fly that way in this physical reality? No, I've already done it in my dream reality that felt as real as this one. There are many ways you can experience something.

    To soothe your money situation, feel more joy. Then you'll feel steadier....and more creativity will arise....and avenues for more money can appear. If you keep that vibration of...."I don't have enough money," it continues to be problematic. Can you be happy with 2 dollars in your pocket? Yes! You are joy itself....as Source energy. You cannot stop being joy, but your thoughts can make you think you are joyless.


  4. #54
    Super Kitty Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    Excuse me if I may, but that is the premise in the books and from what I've been reading throughout the forums, i.e. the manifestation of outrageous outcomes? I quote "there is nothing you cannot Be, Do or Have"...
    I'm not suggesting that you can't have what you want. Rather, I'm pointing out the truth of how things work. Things aren't going to re-arrange themselves for you so that you can feel better. I get that you'd prefer things work that way, but they don't. You've got to be willing to feel better even though things haven't changed. It's the key to EVERYTHING. There's simply no way around that.
    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    And as for humping young hotties, come on Marc that's not what it's directly about, it's the socialising and fun at that age etc. that doesn't repeat later in life, need I go on...
    Really? Because if you re-read what you've written, you've made QUITE an emphasis on just that. If it's about socializing and fun, it doesn't take a rocket scientist that socializing and fun can be had at any age.

    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    Maybe not teens but, 20s yea that was the time the prime of my life, I'll never be as good looking and get as much attention as I did then neither will the opposite sex, and I'll never have as much opportunity for socialisation as I did then.
    Once again, I get that you perceive this to be true despite the reality that you were in depression for your 20s. (Which tells you that your premise is flawed -- you had what you wanted and you were still in depression. Therefore, it's simply not possible that the conditions have some sort of magic power to satisfy you.) You can continue to experience that if you want, just keep doing what you're doing. From a vibrational perspective, however, that's just not how things work. But here's the meat of the where you are: You've got to make the decision to give up being right about all these things you don't prefer. You have beliefs about how things work, but if you want things to change, you're going to have to start questioning them. You get to be right, but you can't have it both ways. There's no going back, so if you insist that the only way to satisfy your desires is to go back, then there really is no hope. The only way out is for you to feel your way into the notion that you can satisfy your desires without going back.

    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    ...it's simply not possible for me at the moment to get into a systematic meditation practice to effectively silence my thinking at the moment and find some peace...
    so my goal and intention is to move into a position using a lot of what I've learnt from Abe teachings so that I can do so.. just imagining this makes me feel better..
    You just said the EXACT opposite in your last post: "I want to do this by meditation - or a process by which I can reach a silent state of mind without using my mind, since I find it incredibly difficult to unroot my current beliefs and thoughts - I'll let the universe decide once I find some peace because I'm unable to, the situation is not redeemable from my perspective." Once again, you've left yourself no choices. It's "simply not possible" for you to meditate and it's "incredibly difficult" to actually think differently. Well, given that those are your only real options, you're screwed. There just isn't anything left. Until you're willing to STOP making it difficult or impossible for yourself, you're stuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    ...furthermore if it really is possible to fulfill my desires as a young man i.e. party, socialise & the rest of what occurs in your early 20s with people that age (it's not so much about age but the places and things I'd like to do and attend predominantly are filled with young people, older people my age are not there) and not I repeat not fulfill as substitute or 2nd rate experiences occurring in a round about way, and not one requiring me being delusional, then yes the feeling I get is one of hopefulness, I might say even excitement and positive expectation, the same feeling I had aged 19 going into that decade (before depression hit me) or 23 going to uni (once I even had depression), if it is really possible despite the odds looking sorely against me due to my age then yea I get hope in fact I get the inspiration to sort every aspect of my life out so I can enjoy these experiences to the fullest...

    ...if however it's just a method of getting me to "feel" better in order for me to forget or modify the conditions I wished to experience (because they were presenting themselves) and experience substitutes then yea understandably it's not going to cut it for me and I'll have to go down the route of acceptance that my desires can't be fulfilled. I will by the way do the same as above and embark on sorting my life out, I will just give up on my desires to experience young girls at least once in my life - and I'll try to use therapy and various means to get over this feeling of loss and grief.
    Well, as long as feeling better isn't enough for you, then you're never really going to be able to make any progress. Once again, I'm not telling you that you can't have what you want, just explaining how things ACTUALLY work. As I've mentioned, it's your willingness to feel better despite things not changing is the key to EVERYTHING. Now is virtually everyone who encounters Abraham's teaching coming with the same basic ulterior motive at first? OF COURSE. There's nothing wrong with wanting what you want. Nevertheless, at a certain point you're going to have to be willing to feel better for the sake of feeling better. Do you have the ability to find the satisfaction you're reaching for? YES. Are you going to be able to keep doing what you're doing and find that satisfaction? No. You're the one that has to change. If you're not, then you're not going to get anywhere with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    ...The above is not the same as teaching "there is nothing you cannot Be, Do or Have"... which then becomes a disingenous statement. If it is just about changing perspective am I to presume I can live in my own fantasy world completely ignoring the peanut gallery - a gallery with whom I actually want to participate with??
    You're certainly welcome to insist that things should work differently than they do. Nevertheless, things work the way they work.

    Quote Originally Posted by sailorboat View Post
    Precisely, I realised this is in fact not a discussion about my problems or a help line, but a discussion questioning many of the premises set out in the Ask and It is Given and I've read it twice now and referred back to it umpteen times.
    Here's the thing -- you can "question" the premises all you like, but things work the way they work. You can argue for why those premises are unfair, or that they should work differently. If it feels better to do so, go right ahead. Nevertheless, arguing with the premises doesn't change them any more than disagreeing with gravity doesn't suddenly make you start floating off into space. We're not here to prove what Abraham teaches to anyone. We realize that doesn't serve anyone. Rather, our intention is to discuss APPLYING those teachings in our lives. If you want to continue arguing that things should work differently, that's just fine. That sort of continued debate needs to happen somewhere else. If you want to APPLY what we know actually works, that's great. As I mentioned earlier, then it's time to start listening rather than insisting that things should work other than the way they do.

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