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Thread: Collective Reality and Its Limitations

  1. #1

    Collective Reality and Its Limitations

    Hello everyone, this will be my first post here. I'll make a brief introduction by saying that, while I'm not new to the concept of the LoA and everything related, I'm relatively recently starting to get more actively involved with it. I've had this sort of "innate wisdom" since ever, but for some reason I was driven to start researching and studying it further recently.

    With that said, I've been doing a lot of reading and such, and I've come upon some questions that I cannot seem to answer properly, so I figured this was a good place to get some extra words of wisdom, the ones I'm failing to reach within myself. I know nobody can convince me of anything and I have to find the answers by myself, but I figured that maybe the path of least resistance, for me, in this case, would be to try and, let's say, look outside to find a reflection of the inside in it.

    I honestly have a lot of things I wanna discuss, but I don't wanna make one single first "macropost" and have things get lost along the way, so I'm probably gonna be splitting things into related topics, one by one, over a period of time. Can't do everything in one fell swoop, better to go step by step. So I'll just get on with it.

    I was wondering, I know that reality is relative, it's all a matter of perception, and that we attract everything to ourselves. But isn't there some sort of "collective reality" we are "bound" to (even if it's a self-imposed limit that we decide before coming into the physical)? I can clearly see how some people suffer thinking of wars and poverty and hunger, and I simply choose not to, and it doesn't affect me at all, but can anyone deny the need to breathe? The need to eat? Isn't that sort of a limit to what we can manifest in this physical world? I remember Abraham saying something along the lines of "you didn't create that car". That's kinda what I'm going for. We can manifest our reality, yes, but aren't there some sort of physical rules that we abide to?

    I got thinking this because I've been probably obsessing a bit over this whole business of attracting and manifesting, and having thoughts like "did I attract that stain on the sidewalk I'm passing by? Did I attract that pebble over there?". Do we really attract every little detail, even if it has no positive or negative impact on us? It just seems more logical to think that we simply create within a previously agreed-upon physical reality.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator WellBeing's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Forum, Ran!

    Moderator's note: I've edited your thread title to focus more clearly on the discussion that you want to have. This will help you attract the replies you're wanting.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    was wondering, I know that reality is relative, it's all a matter of perception, and that we attract everything to ourselves. But isn't there some sort of "collective reality" we are "bound" to (even if it's a self-imposed limit that we decide before coming into the physical)? I can clearly see how some people suffer thinking of wars and poverty and hunger, and I simply choose not to, and it doesn't affect me at all, but can anyone deny the need to breathe? The need to eat? Isn't that sort of a limit to what we can manifest in this physical world? I remember Abraham saying something along the lines of "you didn't create that car". That's kinda what I'm going for. We can manifest our reality, yes, but aren't there some sort of physical rules that we abide to?

    I got thinking this because I've been probably obsessing a bit over this whole business of attracting and manifesting, and having thoughts like "did I attract that stain on the sidewalk I'm passing by? Did I attract that pebble over there?". Do we really attract every little detail, even if it has no positive or negative impact on us? It just seems more logical to think that we simply create within a previously agreed-upon physical reality.
    When I have confusion like this, I take it out of the theoretical/hypothetical and into my own experience, and ask myself, "What am I really wanting here?" Usually I find the real topic is a limiting belief I have that I am avoiding looking at, but by talking about it in a roundabout way, I'm trying to get an answer without actually looking at my real issue. It's like I would use theoretical or hypothetical topics as a red herring to hide from what was really bothering me.

    Like the question, "Can people grow back severed limbs?" Well, my experience of other people and 'consensus reality' says "No." But when I would think about it, I felt bad. Why? Not because I was missing a limb I wanted to grow back, but because I was using a hypothetical situation and an indirect observation of another's reality to explain to myself why what I wanted was impossible. I mean, if someone who is missing a limb can't grow it back, then I can't really create the life I want, can I? Limits that I don't control! AHA! Now I don't have to do any more work on deliberate creation!

    So I learned to only focus on what is really bothering me, the real topic. I'm not saying this is what you're doing, it's just what I found in my own experience. Hypotheticals are diversion. Because I cannot know what anyone else's interior world is like, I cannot know what issues really bother them. A person with a severed limb may not have the desire to grow it back, their path of least resistance/most allowing may involve a completely different path to their dream life. I cannot say. I can only look at my own life, my own experiences.

    But it's worth thinking about, IMO. Are you wanting something specifically that you don't think is possible, because other people, consensus reality, doesn't think it's possible?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Palimpsest View Post
    When I have confusion like this, I take it out of the theoretical/hypothetical and into my own experience, and ask myself, "What am I really wanting here?" Usually I find the real topic is a limiting belief I have that I am avoiding looking at, but by talking about it in a roundabout way, I'm trying to get an answer without actually looking at my real issue. It's like I would use theoretical or hypothetical topics as a red herring to hide from what was really bothering me.

    Like the question, "Can people grow back severed limbs?" Well, my experience of other people and 'consensus reality' says "No." But when I would think about it, I felt bad. Why? Not because I was missing a limb I wanted to grow back, but because I was using a hypothetical situation and an indirect observation of another's reality to explain to myself why what I wanted was impossible. I mean, if someone who is missing a limb can't grow it back, then I can't really create the life I want, can I? Limits that I don't control! AHA! Now I don't have to do any more work on deliberate creation!

    So I learned to only focus on what is really bothering me, the real topic. I'm not saying this is what you're doing, it's just what I found in my own experience. Hypotheticals are diversion. Because I cannot know what anyone else's interior world is like, I cannot know what issues really bother them. A person with a severed limb may not have the desire to grow it back, their path of least resistance/most allowing may involve a completely different path to their dream life. I cannot say. I can only look at my own life, my own experiences.

    But it's worth thinking about, IMO. Are you wanting something specifically that you don't think is possible, because other people, consensus reality, doesn't think it's possible?
    Well, this is kinda creepy, cause you're partly right. I AM getting into hypotheticals because of some other "limiting belief" I have. Although I wouldn't call it a belief, it's more like I'm not sure what to believe, so I'm trying to find more information to work with. But even more than that, all of this is a bit overwhelming. It's like having the ground you always stood on be called an illusion, and suddenly you're not sure if you're able to stand there or there or you're just gonna fall through. I don't really have a specific thing I believe is impossible. Rather, I want to know that there's at least some basis of reality in what I know, what I perceive. I don't like feeling like I'm floating in a shapeless pool of energy, with no reason or purpose, and only the promise of what "can be". I'm basically trying to find what is it that I CAN know with some certainty, instead of everything being a "maybe".

    I am, unfortunately, of a very scientific and logical mind. I always said I believe anything is possible, but it has to "make sense" to me. I have many questions like this one, but ultimately they all come from trying find the logical sense in some of these teachings, cause they've left a whole bunch of "plot holes" for me. I don't want to disbelieve, so I'm trying to fill in the gaps, make sense of the things that still don't, so I can feel confident and believe wholly.

    I gotta say, you really caught me off-guard with that one. First reply I get and you're already making me "confess" what I'm really doing here, heh. I suppose that's what I wanted.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    I was wondering, I know that reality is relative, it's all a matter of perception, and that we attract everything to ourselves. But isn't there some sort of "collective reality" we are "bound" to (even if it's a self-imposed limit that we decide before coming into the physical)?
    I'd describe it differently. Are there things about this physical experience that you've helped establish a lot of momentum about even before you get here? Absolutely. You want the sun coming up each day without any thought or effort on your part. That's a different thing than saying that you're "bound. "
    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    I can clearly see how some people suffer thinking of wars and poverty and hunger, and I simply choose not to, and it doesn't affect me at all, but can anyone deny the need to breathe? The need to eat? Isn't that sort of a limit to what we can manifest in this physical world?
    On one hand, there are some spiritual masters, some alive today, that supposedly do not need to eat. So, the answer is, "No." As Abraham says, if this physical experience has caused you to launch a desire, it has the ability to fulfill that desire. The bigger questions are, has your life really caused you to launch the desire not to breathe, and what's going on that you'd see breathing as a "limitation?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    I remember Abraham saying something along the lines of "you didn't create that car". That's kinda what I'm going for. We can manifest our reality, yes, but aren't there some sort of physical rules that we abide to?
    Again, is there momentum you've helped establish about this physical experience? YES. Does it mean you can't do something different? No, but it would take a lot of aligning in order to move outside that momentum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    I got thinking this because I've been probably obsessing a bit over this whole business of attracting and manifesting, and having thoughts like "did I attract that stain on the sidewalk I'm passing by? Did I attract that pebble over there?".
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    Do we really attract every little detail, even if it has no positive or negative impact on us?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    It just seems more logical to think that we simply create within a previously agreed-upon physical reality.
    We do. That doesn't mean you're still not creating every bit of it. Your vibration is incredibly complex.

  6. #6
    Super Kitty Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    Although I wouldn't call it a belief, it's more like I'm not sure what to believe, so I'm trying to find more information to work with.
    The thing about LOA is that it's responding to the vibration that you've been offering. What you're offering today is pretty much the same as what you offered yesterday. So it's not as if somehow you're unmoored and starting from nothing. Everything still works the way you're used to it working, except that now you realize there's the potential for something different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    But even more than that, all of this is a bit overwhelming. It's like having the ground you always stood on be called an illusion, and suddenly you're not sure if you're able to stand there or there or you're just gonna fall through.
    Is the ground you're standing on an illusion? Yes. Are you going to fall through it now because you realize it's an illusion? No. That's the point of the momentum you've established around this physical reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    I don't really have a specific thing I believe is impossible. Rather, I want to know that there's at least some basis of reality in what I know, what I perceive.
    There isn't. There isn't any "objective" reality you're trying to tease out. You get to create the experience you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    I don't like feeling like I'm floating in a shapeless pool of energy, with no reason or purpose, and only the promise of what "can be".
    In the bigger picture, you are indeed a shapeless stream of energy (as there's no "shape" in no physical. For a while, at least, you've chosen to focus yourself into this physical reality, into the physical body you identify as you, with the personality you identify as you. That gives you a starting point and framework to start from.

    [QUOTE=Ran;979193
    I'm basically trying to find what is it that I CAN know with some certainty, instead of everything being a "maybe".[/quote]
    You know how you feel in this moment. That's really the most important thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    I am, unfortunately, of a very scientific and logical mind. I always said I believe anything is possible, but it has to "make sense" to me. I have many questions like this one, but ultimately they all come from trying find the logical sense in some of these teachings, cause they've left a whole bunch of "plot holes" for me.
    Such as?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    I don't want to disbelieve, so I'm trying to fill in the gaps, make sense of the things that still don't, so I can feel confident and believe wholly.
    The thing is that you're not going to think your way out of that. You can SOOTHE yourself emotionally, and in reaching a better feeling place emotionally, LOA will fill in those gaps to match the improvement in the way you feel.

  7. #7
    Well, I put "bound" in quotes for that reason, heh. I didn't mean bound in a negative way. Just sort of tied to it by choice.

    I can understand that there's people that can do incredible things, but they are considered incredible for a reason. Why do the rest of us, the 99.99% of humanity, manifest the need to eat? Maybe it doesn't generate any contrast for those masters anymore, so they decide to discard it? Would that be a good guess? But then regarding that there's another thing I was wondering. Why did so very many of us manifest so many similar things as a baseline for our reality? Even if it's possible to change them.

    The idea that absolutely everything I experience is attracted is gonna take a while to get used to. Like I said, I'm getting a bit obsessive about it, and it's not doing me any favors. I think I need to go back to just letting things be, without constantly questioning why, but it's difficult.

    I suppose "illusion" doesn't necessarily have to mean "not real". Maybe it's more like "real to me now, but not an absolute". It's just so much, and I start feeling like this human brain isn't the best tool to comprehend the concepts that I'm trying to. Like existing outside of time and space. It creates so many questions I can't answer.

    Regarding "plot holes", for example: from what I gather, we attract "negative" things because of previous conditioning, teachings and such. But why did we attract those teachings in the first place, if we came here from pure positive energy? And if my parents taught me that, and their parents taught them that, and so forth, then who taught that to the very first humans? How did anything negative ever come to exist in this world we created?

    Regardless, I really appreciate all the answers so far. It certainly does soothe, like you say. I think simply discussing these topics with someone is helping me a lot. I've been pretty much alone in this journey of discovery so far, and maybe that was starting to take a toll on my psyche.

    On a side note, for some reason I'm not seeing my second post here o.o But it seems others do, so no big deal I suppose.

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    Limits are only limits if they limit you. For example, google tells me that the current fastest mile run is 3 minutes 43 seconds. So in theory, that is the 'limit' to how fast humans can run. I feel completely neutral about that. Probably because I have zero desire to become an elite athlete, or set any records. Technically, it might be a limit, but not for me. It's just information that tells me that's the fastest anybody has ever run on record.

    But if I was an elite athlete, or had a desire to be one, the idea that there was a limit to how fast a human could run might cause me to feel bad, or to feel uncomfortable. In this case, the human running limit might really be a limit. It's the presence of desire that establishes limits. If there weren't limits, there would never be desire. Desire is the creative impulse for more! More of what makes me feel good! Desire is always pushing up against limits (but it's always ultimately individual, not consensual).

    Your feelings are always pointing you towards your true desire. If you are someone who identifies as being logical, then your feelings might seem to be capricious and arbitrary and not to be trusted. This creates instant conflict, wherever "What I want" is not laid out in a logical path per your current logical perspective. Your desires won't make sense, or they will seem like pipe dreams, fantasies, something to be feared, etc.

    My best advice, just based on and filtered through my own experience, is to trust how you feel and what you want more than what you know or what anyone else knows. What you know is based on your past experience and your past perspectives. It is inherently limited. Because your mind is constantly expanding in awareness (if you let it), and awareness changes reality.

    If you are wondering why human bodies are limited, feel your way around the subject. When you think of being limited in any way, how does it feel? Do you feel trapped? Betrayed? Like someone or something else controls you, despite what you might desire? Do you feel good? Rather than the logic of clear-cut limits that exist independent of what you want, really look at where YOU feel limited, or what is limiting YOU.

    Per your examples, if you were really feeling the need to eat or breathe is limiting to you, then what might that be pointing to, per your true desire? Would you feel like you don't have enough time, that eating takes up time you'd rather spend on something else (and what you are wanting is more time to do what you want?) Would you feel like your body controls you, that you are a slave to your body (and what you want is to feel free, like your body serves you?) Would you feel that you dislike the feeling of bodily functions (and what you want is to feel comfortable and at ease in your body?)

    Your logic (belief) tells you that you'll be safe if you figure out the clear-cut boundaries, the absolute reality, the one that is made of stone and not putty. And maybe that is the limit that is limiting you. I cannot say, only you know how you feel about all these things!

    It really, really, truly, super duper works, for all things, if you always choose a better feeling thought. It is always available to you, in every second. And when you do it consistently, you expand in ways you cannot even imagine right now. If I say to you, "Yes, there are limits. You cannot beat gravity, you have to breathe, you have to eat, you have to look both ways when you cross a busy street, the first human experience exists at the same time as the last human experience, everything that could ever exist already exists, so you can't truly create anything new, it is the desire for experience that brings those things that already exist into reality" how does any of that FEEL to you?

    If anything I said makes you feel bad/negative/uncomfortable/resistant, just notice what you feel, then feel your way to a better feeling thought, which will bring more clarity. You'll know the better feeling thought, because it will feel like relief, or at least, feel better to you, ha! The more you follow your feelings, the more you trust your feelings more than any other authority or opinion or belief, the more it will start to lead to the real limit you're butting up against, which is where your true desire lies (the two sides of the coin). Beliefs are only a problem if they limit you from what you want. Verily, a limit is just a belief that is no longer serving you. Nothing more, nothing less!

    I hope this helps! That is my intention! Thank you for the opportunity to express my own thoughts. Almost every time I answer a query, I find myself later expanding in a way I hadn't even considered, because there is always something in the reply that indirectly fits into a limit I myself am butting up against, and often it's a limit I didn't even know I had. That's the joy of idea exchange, the wonderful growth that comes out of it.

  9. #9
    That makes sense. A limit is meaningless if it's not particularly limiting you. Truth be told, I use those things as an example, but I don't have any problem with eating or breathing or such things (that I know of). It's all an attempt at understanding. Gathering more knowledge, putting the pieces together. If I understand A and B, and I know that A+B=C, then I can understand C by understanding what composes it. Something like that.

    My current, limiting belief, I think, is a bit beyond the things of this physical world. It's a belief about death, and what's after. It's scary. Thinking of an end is scary, and thinking of something without end is also scary. As much as I've always been open minded and "spiritual", I've also always had this underlying fear of ceasing to be. I thought how even the concept of a Christian hell, "eternal suffering", was much better than simply never experiencing anything anymore. And even when I can get past that, I fear that if it's not over with death, it might be over later, at some point. Eternity is a very long time, plenty for anything to happen.

    I keep reading up on different topics, looking for proof. And truth be told, I find it. Things like quantum physics, or how the many spiritual teachers seem to somehow end up saying the same things, just in different ways. I find the universe makes sense, and it cannot be just chance. I keep telling myself how science is limited, and human knowledge is limited, and no matter how much we try, there's things we can never explain simply with it. But somehow I end up coming back to this, and thinking none of it is conclusive, none of it is "absolute, irrefutable proof" that we're all here for a reason, and not by chance.

    I don't know, I feel really weak admitting this. If I can't even get past this, how can I possibly understand the complexities of the LoA and everything it entails? It's like trying to study rocket science without understanding numbers.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    I don't know, I feel really weak admitting this. If I can't even get past this, how can I possibly understand the complexities of the LoA and everything it entails? It's like trying to study rocket science without understanding numbers.
    But how do you feel when you say or think this? How does it feel to think you can't grasp something? Are those thoughts that feel good?

    When you have fearful thoughts about death and life, how do they feel? Do they feel good?

    Unless it feels really good, can you find a better feeling thought? For each topic. Not necessarily a joyful thought. Just one that feels better than the previous one.

    Instead of thinking thoughts like you are trying to understand the non understandable and maybe it's hopeless, maybe try "I'm only feeling confusion because I'm entering unchartered territory. I'm exploring where I've never explored before!"

    Does that thought (in your own words) feel better? You are focusing on the unwanted "I don't know what I'm doing, I'm confused, this is so hard" instead of on the wanted "I have so many ideas and I don't need to have all the answers right now." Or however it feels better to you.

    It literally, truly, (I SWEAR) comes down to the better feeling thought. Not necessarily a good thought, just a better feeling one. That is the answer to every question you will ever have. It will always get you to where you want to go, it will never let you down. It's exactly like the trip from San Diego to Phoenix that gets used as an analogy here on the forum very frequently. A better feeling thought is a mile. The next better feeling thought is another mile. Enough miles, and you get to your destination.

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