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Thread: Collective Reality and Its Limitations

  1. #11
    Super Kitty Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    That makes sense. A limit is meaningless if it's not particularly limiting you. Truth be told, I use those things as an example, but I don't have any problem with eating or breathing or such things (that I know of). It's all an attempt at understanding.
    Which makes those examples of limited value. It's more helpful if you'll look at your own experience and talk about something that actually has meaning in your experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    Gathering more knowledge, putting the pieces together. If I understand A and B, and I know that A+B=C, then I can understand C by understanding what composes it. Something like that.
    You're in luck. What you think (A), how you feel (B) and what manifests (C) is always a perfect match. A+B ALWAYS equal C.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    My current, limiting belief, I think, is a bit beyond the things of this physical world. It's a belief about death, and what's after. It's scary. Thinking of an end is scary, and thinking of something without end is also scary.
    Let's simplify. Negative emotion ALWAYS means that you and your IB are looking at the same things and offering very different perspectives. So when you look at the death experience and see something unwanted, the negative emotion is your evidence that your IB does not agree with the way you're seeing things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    As much as I've always been open minded and "spiritual", I've also always had this underlying fear of ceasing to be. I thought how even the concept of a Christian hell, "eternal suffering", was much better than simply never experiencing anything anymore. And even when I can get past that, I fear that if it's not over with death, it might be over later, at some point. Eternity is a very long time, plenty for anything to happen.
    Again, that's your IB's very specific feedback to you saying, "That's not what's going on!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    I keep reading up on different topics, looking for proof. And truth be told, I find it. Things like quantum physics, or how the many spiritual teachers seem to somehow end up saying the same things, just in different ways. I find the universe makes sense, and it cannot be just chance. I keep telling myself how science is limited, and human knowledge is limited, and no matter how much we try, there's things we can never explain simply with it. But somehow I end up coming back to this, and thinking none of it is conclusive, none of it is "absolute, irrefutable proof" that we're all here for a reason, and not by chance.
    There's a reason for that. That's because from the feeling place of doubt, LOA can only reinforce your doubt. You can't action your way out of that. As I mentioned before, your job is to SOOTHE your doubt and in finding a way to feel better, LOA will fill those details for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    I don't know, I feel really weak admitting this. If I can't even get past this, how can I possibly understand the complexities of the LoA and everything it entails? It's like trying to study rocket science without understanding numbers.
    Indeed, how can you possibly understand rocket science when you're still learning your 1-2-3s? The answer is that you stop expecting yourself to be far beyond where you are. Rather, you focus on the task at hand, which is learning the basics.

  2. #12
    Hm... maybe I've been trying to take giant leaps all this time, thinking it's the "next step", when in fact it's miles away. Whenever I think about that fear, I try to just stop thinking that, and think the opposite. Maybe that's too big of a gap to cross in one go. I'm just not sure how to find those middle steps I'm missing. How do I go from "I fear this because of that" to "I'm happy about this because of the opposite of that", without trying to jump straight from one to the other?
    I've read about the emotional scale and such, but I have a hard time putting into practice. Sometimes what is suggested as the next emotional step is something I don't feel at all, like hatred or anger. I can't force myself to go through those in order to progress, so I find myself missing that next step, not knowing what it is. Or maybe I'm just a poor judge of my emotions, I might be miscalculating which is it that I'm at.

    The idea of me and my IB looking at the same thing with different perspectives really hit me, though. I immediately imagined trying to sort of pull away from myself, to rip "me" from "myself", and how difficult and even painful that would be.

  3. #13
    FallenAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    How do I go from "I fear this because of that" to "I'm happy about this because of the opposite of that", without trying to jump straight from one to the other?....maybe I'm just a poor judge of my emotions, I might be miscalculating which is it that I'm at.
    The Emotional Guidance Scale is just that - a guide. It's use is not mandatory. Knowing how the EGS works and what our emotions mean is essential to this Work, but the Work is not dependent on identifying every emotion resulting from every thought. Just awareness of which thought makes you feel a little better is all you need. You know when you've made too big a jump in thought when the leap is not sustainable.

    You likely will get better at identifying your emotions as you get more practiced with the Work, but don't get hung up on having to decipher which emotion each thought is producing. You know when a thought feels good and when it does not. When it does not, reach for a slightly different one that feels better - just a little bit better. For many people new to this Work, just knowing that anger is a step in the right direction can be liberating and very helpful, but it's not necessary to try and choose "anger" as you choose your better feeling thought. Whichever thought feels slightly better and is sustainable is a good middle step as you make your way to "I'm happy."

  4. #14
    I'll try and keep working on this, now with new insight, but in the meantime I'm still interested in hearing about those questions back there left unanswered, if nothing else out of curiosity. Mostly just wondering what Abraham said, if anything, since of course I haven't gone through all of the material, and might have missed some answers.
    I'm talking about the questions like why do some few people change their reality dramatically (such as discarding the need to eat) while most don't. Or how did negative things come to happen in this world in the first place, if we came from pure positive energy. I'm sure it all has an explanation, I just haven't found it yet.

  5. #15
    FallenAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    how did negative things come to happen in this world in the first place, if we came from pure positive energy.
    Abraham has spoken a lot about the function of unwanted - or what we sometimes call negative. Everything contains wanted and unwanted. Discerning unwanted is what we call negative, but it's really what allows us to see wanted - just like seeing with our eyes depends on our being able to perceive light and dark. Discerning light from dark is perceiving contrast (like in photography.) Contrast is necessary for the creative process - the sand in the oyster that makes the pearl. It's been this way since evolution began and this is how all creativity happens. With no contrast (some of which we label negative) there is no creative process. Without contrast (some of which feels negative to us) we would not be able to create, we would not be alive in our bodies.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by FallenAngel View Post
    Abraham has spoken a lot about the function of unwanted - or what we sometimes call negative. Everything contains wanted and unwanted. Discerning unwanted is what we call negative, but it's really what allows us to see wanted - just like seeing with our eyes depends on our being able to perceive light and dark. Discerning light from dark is perceiving contrast (like in photography.) Contrast is necessary for the creative process - the sand in the oyster that makes the pearl. It's been this way since evolution began and this is how all creativity happens. With no contrast (some of which we label negative) there is no creative process. Without contrast (some of which feels negative to us) we would not be able to create, we would not be alive in our bodies.
    Yeah, I understand. Funnily enough I've been finding that kinda information just recently. If everything was "perfect" then there'd be no reason to anything, and even worse, we wouldn't even see it as "good" cause we wouldn't have a "bad" to compare it to. But how does that work when we're just born, or really young? How are we attracting the teachings of our parents and other people that surround us, which condition us into believing we are powerless? Are those false teachings a necessity in order to have contrast? Do we choose them before we come here?

    It also gets kinda confusing talking about the LoA when you include the LoA itself into it. How come some people live and die without ever learning about all of this? Why did they not get the chance to learn it? And how come some people that don't know it apply it instinctively and live happily, but others don't?

  7. #17
    Beloved Woman paradise-on-earth's Avatar
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    How come some people live and die without ever learning about all of this? Why did they not get the chance to learn it? And how come some people that don't know it apply it instinctively and live happily, but others don't?
    Everybody has the "chance", because everybody has an emotional guidance.
    Living happily comes, when you are like the small children or all the animals (and even the plants)- and follow what FEELS best to you, here and now.

    Of course itīs tricky for humans who came with the deliberate intention to be creators. To be creative, you MUST decipher the contrast a bit, to find out what you would prefer, what would be BETTER.
    But it doesnīt need to include suffering.

    Some people are more willing to suffer than others, and thatīs their free will.
    -Maybe itīs because they are up for some intense drama, -it might translate as "thrilling adventure" and creating in BIG ways, to them.
    -Maybe they are agonized, and Abe say that as soon we donīt find MORE interest in life than not, we all "go" (aka croak).
    -Some people are not willing to follow their intuition, their hopes and dreams, their IBīs input- because they prefer being right over being happy. And again, thatīs their free will.

    Every moment of misery puts more of the wanted into their Vortex- so, nothing is "lost" or squandered, in the end.
    We all get to play the game in the exact way we decide to do.


    Always, when you know what you don’t want,
    that’s when the rocket of desire is born of what you do want.
    That is the fruit of your experience.

    Now pluck it and savor it and enjoy it.
    Visualize it, and find the feeling place of it.
    And live happily ever after, once you get the hang of this.


    Abe



    The world isn't broken.
    It's diverse.


    Boston, Sept. 2012



  8. #18
    Jewel M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ran View Post
    I'll try and keep working on this, now with new insight, but in the meantime I'm still interested in hearing about those questions back there left unanswered, if nothing else out of curiosity. Mostly just wondering what Abraham said, if anything, since of course I haven't gone through all of the material, and might have missed some answers.
    I'm talking about the questions like why do some few people change their reality dramatically (such as discarding the need to eat) while most don't.
    Hello Ran,

    I've had some odd experiences such as being on a web page, leaving that website, then suddenly remembering there was an interesting link on that site that I wanted to open....and suddenly that link opens up on its own....without me doing a thing. I've also had TV channels change on their own, with just the desire to experience a different channel. So in other words, my mind/or intention is doing everything. And so I thought...that perhaps I simply forgot that I was supposed to create the physical actions to do these things....click on a link, or push a button on a remote control. Why do I create physical actions, if they are unnecessary? I, unconsciously, create them for the experience. I could probably manifest not needing food, but I enjoy tasting food...touching fruits and vegetables. I enjoy cooking. It provides stimulation and endless creativity. I like the idea of plants and fruits growing in the sun....and farmers tending to them....and all of this activity that goes into food production. My appreciation/love magnifies.


    Or how did negative things come to happen in this world in the first place, if we came from pure positive energy. I'm sure it all has an explanation, I just haven't found it yet.
    We became mesmerized with these bodies, thinking that’s all we were. We forgot the depth of our spirits, the pure connection to Source. Imagine feeling all alone, having to fend for yourself in a body…and the body is fragile….can get hurt or sick or die. And so fear (negativity) arose. Though we depended on others as part of a community, we still felt singular in these bodies, apart from the all. Our preoccupation with basic survival created such an acute focus that we forgot/forget the non-physical that always supports us. We didn’t remember we were eternal beings, that death would not be the end of us.

  9. #19
    Hm, I suppose maybe learning about LoA is kind of irrelevant then? Maybe there's those who master it without even knowing it, because they simply allowed such a thing, and those who read everything there is on the subject and yet don't allow themselves to believe it, and reject it. Maybe it's just one more experience in life, as any other. Not the great life-changer that I thought, but rather just one way of getting to those great life changes.

    Perhaps those who create big changes that defy the physical "laws" are simply discarding something they are not interested in? Something that creates no contrast for them. I know I love eating, at least :P Not so sure about breathing, but who knows.

    And maybe it's like we got lost in our own illusion, in this physical world. We created it as an experience, and then we "fell for it" and started thinking it was the whole thing. More collectively than individually, I'd guess. I'm not completely sure, this one's a bit harder to grasp.

    (sorry if this gets sent multiple times, it's working weird and dunno if it's sending it >_<)

  10. #20
    Beloved Woman paradise-on-earth's Avatar
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    maybe learning about LoA is kind of irrelevant then?
    Not at all, if you want to be a deliberate creator!

    We all are creators. But the deliberateness of creating and allowing puts a level of awareness, fun, genius and mastership- a triumph- into the game, that isnīt achievable "by default".

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