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Thread: Clarity about processes

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    This is what my life experience has not shown me. Because LOA is reacting to my focus, but what I focus on is still something that I must deliberately direct. Meaning if I get up, meditate in the morning, and then just let my mind grab onto whatever thread it feels like attaching to, unless I have the intention of guiding it toward feeling good, won't my practiced thoughts (or momentum) just carry it back in the same old direction thus creating more of the same? I guess I'm having a hard time with the concept of the cork naturally rising without any intervention (or intention) on my part (i.e. looking for better feeling thoughts). I'm having a hard time articulating what I mean.
    If, after being in meditation and achieving a better feeling vibration you turn right back around and go back to those resistant thoughts are you going to pick up again where you left off? Yes you will. The thing is that you're going to notice that you're doing it because the contrast between feeling better and your resistant thoughts is going to be more apparent. That said, there's still benefit to that time where you've been meditating and not resisting. The more you practice the place of alignment, the more LOA responds to it, the easier it gets to find your way back, the more LOA brings you thoughts that match it, the easier it is to find subjects that let you stay in your place of alignment.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    If I get into a place of satisfaction, but don't hold any positive expectation, would anything move?
    Let's approach it from a different angle. LOA brings you more of what you're focused upon. So if you get into a place of satisfaction, LOA brings you more things about which to be satisfied. That's a good thing, is it not? Ultimately, isn't that what you're reaching for? Satisfied about this, satisfied about that, here's even more satisfying things! Now it's true that there's even more positive emotion that's even deeper than satisfaction, which includes positive expectation, and that's wonderful. There's no end to the amount of relief you can find. The issue is that you can't get there by being DISSATISFIED with the place of satisfaction because you want to be further up the scale. You get there by relaxing into the understanding that there's MORE.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    How big a role does positive expectation play? (large I believe).
    It's a step on the scale. It's important, but the other vibrational places are important too. It's not the case that you "should" be there, to the extent that it would imply you "should not" be where you are. To use the building metaphor, if you're on the 5th floor and you want to be at the top, which we'll call floor 10, we might call floor 8 positive expectation. Is the 8th floor close to the top? Sure. If you're on the 5th floor, however, it's not as important at the moment as the steps on the stairs that are going from where you are up to floor 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    Can't you hold positive expectation and feel generally lousy and still attract what you expect?
    Keep in mind that positive expectation is a place on the EGS, right above Optimism on the scale. In light of that, your statement is a contradiction. "Can I feel lousy and be in a place of positive expectation?" Not at the same time, no. As long as you're focused on things that cause you to feel lousy, you're not in positive expectation.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    And vice versa?
    Again, no. As long as you're focused on things that allow you to feel positive expectation, you're not focused on things that feel lousy.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    Or you can have positive expectation about a certain area (say finances) and have your reality reflect that, and have no positive expectation or negative expectation about an area (say health) and have your reality in that area diminish?
    This is a different story. It's quite normal to feel one way about one area and feel differently about another. And here's the thing -- you can let one subject dominate your attention and your and your attention to that subject will affect the other. So if you're feeling good about finances and badly about health, if you let your attention to the alignment to finances dominate your vibration, your alignment on that subject will start to creep over to health and other subjects and bring them into alignment too. It also works in the other direction. If you let your dissatisfaction with health dominate your vibration, the lack of alignment will begin affect other subjects as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    And so meditation without any of the "work" (focus of attention in a way that brings positive expectation) can leave you feeling satisfied but stagnant?
    Can you see the contradiction here? "Stagnant" implies dissatisfaction. Can you find a feeling place of satisfaction and have LOA bring you dissatisfying things? NO.

    I think that where you're getting confused is misunderstanding what "the work" is. For a desire to manifest, the only thing you MUST do is not contradict it vibrationally. Usually it's easier to hold a softer, more general feeling place, especially at first. Your desire has power of its own, as long as you're not contradicting it, it is coming. Now will a faster moving, more specific focus on that subject feel better? POSSIBLY. If you're able to focus in a more specific way in the direction of what you want, it feels wonderful. That's what strong positive emotion is, very specific positive focus. The issue is that when you're focused in a specific way and you get crossways, that fast moving energy feels REALLY BAD. It really comes down to what you're vibrationally ready to handle.

    Abraham explains that many of us are momentum junkies and we think that what's important is that fast moving energy, when what's really important is ALLOWING. We'd rather feel strong emotion, even if it's negative emotion, than we would be in a softer place that feels better. That's where many people run into problems because they want to make a jump they can't make (that they believe they need to make), when making a smaller shift into a more neutral place is enough.

    When you're really stable in feeling satisfaction, will you then be able to reach for positive expectation more consistently? Absolutely. Will the feeling place of satisfaction ever be something unwanted? No. Abraham explains that it's really just a matter of fine tuning and what feels better in the moment. Sometimes exhilaration and fast moving energy feels WONDERFUL, but sometimes you've had your fill and you want something that's more laid back. When you keep going with fast moving energy beyond what you can enjoy, you cross into overwhelm. Conversely, when laid back isn't engaging enough, you cross into boredom and you want things to move more quickly. It's always a matter of moving in the direction of what feels better.

  2. #12
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    I am getting so close to clarity, this thread has been so helpful. I'm getting what you're saying about satisfaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    It's a step on the scale. It's important, but the other vibrational places are important too. It's not the case that you "should" be there, to the extent that it would imply you "should not" be where you are. To use the building metaphor, if you're on the 5th floor and you want to be at the top, which we'll call floor 10, we might call floor 8 positive expectation. Is the 8th floor close to the top? Sure. If you're on the 5th floor, however, it's not as important at the moment as the steps on the stairs that are going from where you are up to floor 6.
    Ok, so I never realized positive expectation was actually a step on the EGS!! Woah. And this is where I'm not clear yet and I'm going to use an example to try to get there, now from the understanding that positive expectation is a step on the scale.

    I get migraines. When I notice a migraine in my reality it usually causes my emotion to slide to somewhere around frustration (yes I know I react to what is). Now here is where I get confused about positive expectation. I believe in LOA. I believe in the stream of wellbeing. I believe that my migraine is caused by resistance and that by releasing that resistance I should be able to allow the wellbeing I'm seeking. And so I like to meditate. Or drop the oars and just try to bask in allowing. And sometimes my headache will improve a bit. And usually my general mood goes from frustration to maybe hopefulness.

    On the other hand, I can grab a Motrin and my headache will completely subside. No emotional journey. No relaxing. No allowing. From frustration to apparently positive expectation instantly (which is why I didn't realize positive expectation was an actual stop on the scale, just thought it was more like proximity to the staircase in the building, knowing that ascending is a possibility. Something you had access to on any floor.) and relatively quickly full manifestation of what I want. And then I go back to living life in much the same state I was prior to noticing the migraine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Can you see the contradiction here? "Stagnant" implies dissatisfaction. Can you find a feeling place of satisfaction and have LOA bring you dissatisfying things? NO
    I don't think I meant stagnant. I definitely didn't mean anything dissatisfying. I think maybe stationary would have been a better word.



    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Your desire has power of its own, as long as you're not contradicting it, it is coming.
    Need to come to this knowing.



    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Sometimes exhilaration and fast moving energy feels WONDERFUL, but sometimes you've had your fill and you want something that's more laid back. When you keep going with fast moving energy beyond what you can enjoy, you cross into overwhelm. Conversely, when laid back isn't engaging enough, you cross into boredom and you want things to move more quickly. It's always a matter of moving in the direction of what feels better.
    Love that. Definitely makes sense. Thank you so much!

  3. #13
    Nice thread. I just wanted to throw in the observation that the image of releasing the cork and the image of dropping the oars point exactly to the same idea. As you said you feel resonance for the latter, maybe rewind all the discussion using that image instead.

    For me meditation is all about soaking up with Source and there's much more going on there than mere absence of thought. Absence of thought is the premise for something way more interesting to take place, if it does. It doesn't always happen, sometimes a restless mind doesn't let us go deep enough. When it does, describing it as the absence of something is a HUGE understatement. That 'flatter version' would eventually be what I call 'concentration'. The two terms are often mixed up but they point to very different experiences.
    I think Abraham calls that super-receptivity? but I haven't listened to workshops or reasoned in Abe lingo for months so I may be off-track with the term.
    Also, the recent differentiation between made-up thoughts and received thoughts seems quite an interesting recent development. Still I agree that the teachings keep tight and coherent, these are variations and explorations that never contradict the fundamental message.
    Last edited by rose essence; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:03 PM.

  4. #14
    Super Kitty Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    I get migraines. When I notice a migraine in my reality it usually causes my emotion to slide to somewhere around frustration (yes I know I react to what is).
    That's not really accurate. Manifestations are always the RESULT of vibration, not the cause. So when you notice a migraine, it's BECAUSE you have as vibration that's active that doesn't feel good and the migraine is just that negative emotion getting bigger. The migraine isn't the CAUSE of your negative emotion, although observing and reacting to it often cause you to intensify the very thing you're used to doing that caused it.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    Now here is where I get confused about positive expectation. I believe in LOA. I believe in the stream of wellbeing.
    One reason you're getting confused because you're using words in ways that Abraham would not. Just like Positive Expectation is a place on the EGS, so is Belief. They're similar vibrational places. I've capitalized them because when Abraham uses them, they're referring to particular vibrational places. So when you say you "believe" in LOA and you "believe" in the stream of well-being, you're not meaning that you're in the FEELING PLACE of Belief. That's also true when you talk about positive expectation versus what Abraham means when they talk about it. So that's part of where things go a little screwy in your understanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    I believe that my migraine is caused by resistance and that by releasing that resistance I should be able to allow the wellbeing I'm seeking. And so I like to meditate. Or drop the oars and just try to bask in allowing. And sometimes my headache will improve a bit. And usually my general mood goes from frustration to maybe hopefulness.
    And if you quiet your mind long enough, the resistance that's active in your vibration will stop, which means the manifestation that results from that resistance will stop. It's not unlike going to take a nap in that sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    On the other hand, I can grab a Motrin and my headache will completely subside. No emotional journey. No relaxing. No allowing. From frustration to apparently positive expectation instantly (which is why I didn't realize positive expectation was an actual stop on the scale, just thought it was more like proximity to the staircase in the building, knowing that ascending is a possibility. Something you had access to on any floor.) and relatively quickly full manifestation of what I want.
    No, you're not going from frustration to positive expectation, you're going from headache to absence of headache. We're talking about a change in a particular set of conditions. Your habit of thought that caused you to be a match to the migraine is still there. You can take a Motrin to soothe your headache after you hit yourself in the head with a hammer. That Motrin doesn't do anything to prevent you from hitting yourself in the head with a hammer again.

    The other thing to keep in mind is that we're not JUST talking about headaches here. Your resistance has the ability to express itself in lots of different ways, other than just headaches. In fact, it IS expressing itself in lots of ways, which is sort of the point. Popping a Motrin might fix that particular condition, but it doesn't prevent it from squirting out in any of that myriad of ways. For example, you might not have a headache anymore, but that Motrin doesn't prevent you from leaving the house at the exact WRONG time and rendezvousing with loads of traffic and hitting EVERY RED LIGHT, or from forgetting your wallet so that when you get to the store you end up having to turn around and go back, and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    And then I go back to living life in much the same state I was prior to noticing the migraine.
    Exactly. Your vibration hasn't changed, you just go about doing what you're used to doing, which is why the headaches come back. They're indicators of what you're doing vibrationally/emotionally. But here's the thing -- the more time you spend in a better feeling vibration, the more likely you're going to hang out longer there. And when you start moving back in a resistant direction, you'll be more aware of it and have the opportunity to do something about it before it gets bigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    I don't think I meant stagnant. I definitely didn't mean anything dissatisfying. I think maybe stationary would have been a better word.
    I think you did. What's wrong with stationary when you're in a place that pleases you? There's this undercurrent of dissatisfaction that keeps popping up. That's a piece of things. The next piece of it comes in your next statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    Need to come to this knowing.
    As Abraham says, words don't teach. It's life experience that teaches. That's all part of the process -- applying what Abraham teaches and finding out from your own life experience what happens. That's also the point of Abraham's "dropping the oars" analogy, because the stream carries you automatically if you'll stop paddling against the current. That's where the idea of "stationary" falls apart. Your willingness to drop the oars doesn't leave you stationary, the stream is already moving you in the direction of where you want to go.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    Nice thread. I just wanted to throw in the observation that the image of releasing the cork and the image of dropping the oars point exactly to the same idea. As you said you feel resonance for the latter, maybe rewind all the discussion using that image instead.
    Rose Essence, how have I not made this connection yet? Thank you! Dropping the oars fees sooo good, even physically in my body I can feel the tension just release, my body relax, my mind let go a little. Yum. So good.

    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    That 'flatter version' would eventually be what I call 'concentration'.
    Yes, totally with you on your meditation description. And by "flatter version" you mean when you don't get as deep in meditation, and that is more like concentration than true communion with source. Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    That's not really accurate. Manifestations are always the RESULT of vibration, not the cause. So when you notice a migraine, it's BECAUSE you have as vibration that's active that doesn't feel good and the migraine is just that negative emotion getting bigger. The migraine isn't the CAUSE of your negative emotion, although observing and reacting to it often cause you to intensify the very thing you're used to doing that caused it.
    Yes. Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    So when you say you "believe" in LOA and you "believe" in the stream of well-being, you're not meaning that you're in the FEELING PLACE of Belief.
    I knew that I would likely get a response similar to this, and I understand it intellectually, but am having a hard time differentiating Abraham's belief from my belief. I understand that if I was truly vibrating at belief my reality would match that and it didn't, so there's my indication. But I also know that what I feel is best described by my vocabulary as belief. Because I do feel as though the statements I made were beliefs. I feel their truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    And if you quiet your mind long enough, the resistance that's active in your vibration will stop, which means the manifestation that results from that resistance will stop. It's not unlike going to take a nap in that sense.
    Another thing I "believe" or understand intellectually but haven't experienced.

    Actually I happened along your toothache thread yesterday and the way you described softening into the pain, and reminding yourself that your cells are asking and source is answering and that pain is an indication that help is on the way, is so similar to how I approach a migraine, and yet I'm still, as yet, unable to release that pain. So that would indicate there is resistance somewhere in there, but I'm having a hard time distinguishing it in order to soften it. Or maybe I don't need to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    No, you're not going from frustration to positive expectation, you're going from headache to absence of headache. We're talking about a change in a particular set of conditions. Your habit of thought that caused you to be a match to the migraine is still there. You can take a Motrin to soothe your headache after you hit yourself in the head with a hammer. That Motrin doesn't do anything to prevent you from hitting yourself in the head with a hammer again.
    I love the hammer analogy! And I am following. But correct me if I'm wrong, I am understanding that medication works in large part because of our belief that it will, yes? So I have a stronger belief in the relief Motrin will bring than my belief in the relief that relaxing into the pain and releasing resistance as best I can will bring and that is why I get relief quickly with Motrin and not with dropping the oars? So there is still positive expectation at play or no?


    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    or from forgetting your wallet so that when you get to the store you end up having to turn around and go back
    Stop!! I *used to* do this!



    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    But here's the thing -- the more time you spend in a better feeling vibration, the more likely you're going to hang out longer there. And when you start moving back in a resistant direction, you'll be more aware of it and have the opportunity to do something about it before it gets bigger.
    Mmm. Yesss. And I'm hanging out in better feeling vibrations every day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    I think you did. What's wrong with stationary when you're in a place that pleases you? There's this undercurrent of dissatisfaction that keeps popping up. That's a piece of things.
    I did mean stationary, and didn't mean dissatisfaction, but I can see how stationary might imply dissatisfaction. And the only thing wrong with being stationary in a satisfactory place is because of the "eagerness for more" But I guess that right there is the hang up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    As Abraham says, words don't teach. It's life experience that teaches. That's all part of the process -- applying what Abraham teaches and finding out from your own life experience what happens. That's also the point of Abraham's "dropping the oars" analogy, because the stream carries you automatically if you'll stop paddling against the current. That's where the idea of "stationary" falls apart. Your willingness to drop the oars doesn't leave you stationary, the stream is already moving you in the direction of where you want to go.
    Yes! Exactly. That is the knowing that I want to come to, and this is exactly where my thoughts were when I said that I want to come to the knowing. So I need to keep dropping the oars and let LOA bring me to the experiential understanding that the stream will take me.

    So good. Thanks so much for batting this around with me.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    Actually I happened along your toothache thread yesterday and the way you described softening into the pain, and reminding yourself that your cells are asking and source is answering and that pain is an indication that help is on the way, is so similar to how I approach a migraine, and yet I'm still, as yet, unable to release that pain. So that would indicate there is resistance somewhere in there, but I'm having a hard time distinguishing it in order to soften it. Or maybe I don't need to?
    The last time I had an actual migraine, I had come home right away after having a visual flash that alerted me that one was about to hit. I had alternated between laying down and and walking around, as nothing really helped for a while. Once I finally was able to take a step back from the knee jerk reaction of, "I really want this to stop," and back up into a degree of acceptance, it occurred to me, "What if my body knows what it's doing and this pain is actually my body doing what it needs to do?" The moment I stopped pushing and was open to that, a thought flashed into my mind of a supplement I had taken a few hours earlier and it was all very clear that my body really did not like it and I got the clear message, "Don't take that again." As soon as I had that realization, the pain stopped instantly. It was really very similar to my toothache experience in that it was all about me no longer pushing against what was happening and changing my notion that something was going wrong.

    Now I'm not saying that things will work exactly the same way for you, but just letting you know that my experience is exactly in line with what Abraham describes.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    I love the hammer analogy! And I am following. But correct me if I'm wrong, I am understanding that medication works in large part because of our belief that it will, yes? So I have a stronger belief in the relief Motrin will bring than my belief in the relief that relaxing into the pain and releasing resistance as best I can will bring and that is why I get relief quickly with Motrin and not with dropping the oars? So there is still positive expectation at play or no?
    Do you have an expectation that the pill will bring you relief? Yes. As Abraham reminds us, we have lots of beliefs that actually serve us. Does having that in your vibrational mix mean you're at the place of "Positive Expectation" that we're talking about? NO.


    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    Stop!! I *used to* do this!
    That's my point -- when you're in that vibration of frustration, you rendezvous with those sorts of experiences. I think just about everyone has had those kinds of experiences and can relate. The point is that there's no Motrin to fix that. The only thing that will help is finding a way to feel better.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnBrutico View Post
    I did mean stationary, and didn't mean dissatisfaction, but I can see how stationary might imply dissatisfaction. And the only thing wrong with being stationary in a satisfactory place is because of the "eagerness for more" But I guess that right there is the hang up.
    And that's usually the hang up. Abraham talks about how the perfect stance for creation is "Satisfied with where I am and eager for more." What I've observed is that without the satisfaction with where you are, the "eager for more" just turns you upstream. That's the "paddling upstream" that keeps you from moving. When you have that satisfaction with where you are, the "more" part is natural and effortless.

  7. #17
    Beloved Woman paradise-on-earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    The last time I had an actual migraine, I had come home right away after having a visual flash that alerted me that one was about to hit. I had alternated between laying down and and walking around, as nothing really helped for a while. Once I finally was able to take a step back from the knee jerk reaction of, "I really want this to stop," and back up into a degree of acceptance, it occurred to me, "What if my body knows what it's doing and this pain is actually my body doing what it needs to do?" The moment I stopped pushing and was open to that, a thought flashed into my mind of a supplement I had taken a few hours earlier and it was all very clear that my body really did not like it and I got the clear message, "Don't take that again." As soon as I had that realization, the pain stopped instantly.
    I experienced that on the recent French Riviera Cruise. I had a strange toothache, when Abe explained in the seminar that the "itches and twitches" that we feel actually are source, "giving us Reiki, from the inside out". It dawned to me deeper than ever before that pain is the very same thing: Itīs the feeling that we get when we resist the "Reiki", the flow of source-energy that our cells summon. In the moment we relax, the path becomes free for the energy to flow- and the pain goes away. And also, my toothache went away in that second, and an incredibly delicious feeling occured, instead.


    "Relaxing into the pain" is Abeīs advice about how to deal with pain, in a nutshell, and it works for me EVERY.TIME, and very very fast.

    here are quotes:
    How to deal with pain


    The most significant thing that we want you to focus upon relative to pain, is that when you are feeling it and focusing upon it,
    it cannot go away.

    And if you
    would… A friend earlier offered a very good word that, as you apply it to this, we believe it can serve you very powerfully, and that is, as you
    surrender.

    Now,
    it's sort of like relaxing into the pain
    rather than pushing against it, rather
    than trying to figure it out or understand it or stop it. Just sort of relax and go with it.

    In other words, just sort of accept it. Don't tense against it. Just
    sort of accept it. In most cases, it will soften
    right away, as you try to relax
    into it a little bit.


    ~Abraham, Billings, MT, 6/21/03

  8. #18
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    I'm wondering what you think of the Path of Least Resistance in the context of migraines. As I understand it that would mean actually taking some pill to relieve the pain. BUT certainly not stopping there. Finding the physical relief first and then (because it's easier that way) "working" on your vibration. Or am I up the garden path here?

  9. #19
    To the original topic of this thread, I've been wondering the same thing.

    I just got done listening to the workshops in San Antonio, TX, and Dallas, TX, from November 2017, and now I'm almost done with Phoenix, AZ in December.

    I have noticed as well their focus on meditation. Though they do still say that we didn't come just to meditate all day, and just to limit it to 15 minutes.

    However in the Phoenix workshop, I think there was a segment where the HSer asked whether she had to wait until the next day if she got stuck in some resistance. Sorry I don't have the exact wording. But Abraham said, “You sort of do, you sort of do.”

    So then I was wondering, what about using the processes? Now of course they could have meant that this lady in particular couldn't do that so easily, as she was especially troublesome. But I was just curious about that.

    For me when I'm stuck in resistance, I just bring acceptance and allowance to the feelings and thoughts, and pretty soon I'm feeling better.

  10. #20
    Beloved Woman paradise-on-earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan_Singfield View Post
    I'm wondering what you think of the Path of Least Resistance in the context of migraines. As I understand it that would mean actually taking some pill to relieve the pain. BUT certainly not stopping there. Finding the physical relief first and then (because it's easier that way) "working" on your vibration. Or am I up the garden path here?
    Whatever you are drawn to soothe yourself. And then, soothe yourself further and further, aka RELAX.
    Relax into your worry, relax into your doubt, relax into the fear.

    Some years ago, I got terrible migraines, and the doctors told me that this would never again really stop. That made me very determined to find my path to full healing. For me it was the awareness, that every manifestation is an instant indication of a matching thought/vibrational stance I offered. So, with the migraine I had a very sensitive way to know whenever I was stressing out/tensing/pushing against, and so I could stop thoughts/stance that more or less instantaneously, and then, the pain stopped as well. It felt awesome.

    The clue was for me to not let it gain momentum, but to "give up" the struggle that caused the pain immediately.
    This quotes might give some more understanding of that concept.

    I give up!

    -I never again had migraine.

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