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Thread: Parenting Confusion

  1. #11
    Super Moderator WellBeing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    Sometimes matters of co-creation raise some quibbles about assertion. In my personal experience if I want x and am aligned to it,...
    So, it's going to sound like I'm quibbling here but this is important. So, think back to a real-life example of this and ask yourself, "Did you align to 'it'? Or did you align to your Vortex? How did you feel?" IOW, your guidance is going to be key in answering your own question.

    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    ...and aligned also to the story that Mr B's desires and mine combine well, Mr B usually is least fine with x, or even desiring it.
    This is why I asked you to use a real-life experience for yourself and your own guidance, because as long as you're aware that there's a difference of opinion between you and Mr B on this topic, you're not as aligned as you're stating here. Your emotional guidance will tip you off.

    And when we approach "co-creation" in this fashion that you're describing here, there usually is assertion going on. (Your emotional guidance will tell you, in any event.) Because what you're describing here is trying to change conditions so that you can feel better. This is the "vibrational voodoo" that I often joke about. When we talk about Abraham's only one answer of "feeling better," we mean--and you've heard us say this so many times that you can say it yourself--feeling better without needing the conditions to change first. Can you see the distinction? It's subtle, but it's important.

    So, a more helpful approach would be to align with your Vortex, with your IB. Trying to align with x will almost always inflame your awareness of the disagreement that already exists.

    Part of what happens in almost all of these conversations is that we humans have a very narrow awareness of what we want. Sure, you want x, but you also want harmony with Mr B and you want co-operation and you want win-win and you want him to have what he wants (because it can't feel "good" to you to compete him out of what he wants) and so on. When we align with our Vortex, we are then accessing a solution which fulfills all of those desires, not simply x.

    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    You could say that I do choose parenting rules quite arbitrarily because I can,...
    I'm glad you brought this up because it opens the door to something you had touched upon in your sharing of your story. Think about this: "Why can you? Why can you choose your parenting rules quite arbitrarily?"

    And you touched upon the answer in your sharing of your experience: because, as you acknowledged, rules need to be enforced, which means that, when rules are the chosen actions, then you're in a game of "might makes right." And you were the one with the "might"...until they become pre-teens, as you mentioned.

    That's one reason why Abraham discourage us from the actions of formulating rules and of "setting boundaries." Another reason why Abraham discourage us from these actions is because it's usually the case that the subject of our rules just gets sneaky. And the tougher we get, the sneakier they get. [ETA: So, we want the leverage of our vibrational alignment, instead of mere rules, in all areas of our lives.]

    So, how do we then co-create with others? That's a really good question to have at this point, don't you think? When we find our alignment with our IB, with our Vortex, and think and speak from our Vortex, then we're not talking about rules so much as we're talking about true agreement between the co-creators. That's very different from "assertion," isn't it? And I'm sure that there's some of that going on between you and your son. But it's important to understand that it's not the "rules" that are functioning. It's the agreement which is functioning and, when that agreement is made by all parties from within their Vortices, that's when it's joyous co-creation. Your own emotional guidance will let you know when that's the case. So will your manifestations, as they unfold for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    I know they firmly exclude assertion but I have experienced otherwise.
    Then, could it be how you're using the label "assertion"? Doesn't our conversation about "agreement" (and I'm not playing word games here) give you some different ways of considering your label?

  2. #12
    Super Moderator WellBeing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    Yeah, as we know, children can be be trained to think of themselves in a very screwed way, as it happens. They have yet to learn to be deliberate and choose thoughts based on how they feel.
    You have this backwards. We have to "learn" to be deliberate only after we've been trained away from the deliberateness that is natural to us when we are born. Watch babies. They are masters at shifting away from a focus that feels "worse" towards a focus that feels "better." That's natural, just like the beasts of our planet. It's only after some "well-meaning" and disconnected adult human trains us away (and we do not go willingly) from what is natural to us that we need to learn to be deliberate once again.


    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    I think that was exactly my point? if I didn't express it clearly enough, yes it is the point. That point had been already made by you and Marc before. I wanted to show in very real terms how that concept translated in my experience, as a mother in the same position. I didn't imply there was anything particularly right about the rules I chose, I hope that is clear.


    Yeah, as we know, children can be be trained to think of themselves in a very screwed way, as it happens. They have yet to learn to be deliberate and choose thoughts based on how they feel.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by WellBeing View Post
    You have this backwards. We have to "learn" to be deliberate only after we've been trained away from the deliberateness that is natural to us when we are born. Watch babies. They are masters at shifting away from a focus that feels "worse" towards a focus that feels "better." That's natural, just like the beasts of our planet. It's only after some "well-meaning" and disconnected adult human trains us away (and we do not go willingly) from what is natural to us that we need to learn to be deliberate once again.
    Interesting you should say this, because it is not my experience at all. Babies need a lot of soothing, they don't soothe themselves like, ever, and rely on the mother or father for this, in fact they cry quite a lot as we all know. And have you ever been close to a toddler having a tantrum? Or tried to convince a kid it's time to stop playing and get out of the door? they completely dislike transitions, because if their focus is somewhere, they don't know that they can willingly put it somewhere else. Then they can easily get distracted by the next sparkly thing but there's nothing deliberate about it.
    Then it's true that usually they're not going to hold a grudge for a week. But also that is not deliberate.

  4. #14
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    I was going to respond with a bunch of quotes from you all, but it got too long confusing with all the copying and pasting so I gave up, sat with all these words for awhile and just tried to find a different way to look at this…

    I think I am hung up on "alignment vs. action".

    I know how to get into alignment for myself. And I have the basic understanding how to guide my son into his own alignment (though I am aware that I can do better).

    Once I get myself into alignment, and help guide my son to his alignment (he may or may not be open to adjusting himself) then what? Then do I just sit there and do nothing? Just wait?

    If it is on a school morning and he does not want to go and does not want to get into alignment...even though I get myself into alignment...am I just supposed to sit there and not offer any action? Not even in the form of words?

    What if Source is guiding me to remind him what time it is and he doesn't bother to care? Just because I get into alignment doesn't mean that he will too...

    So, I don't understand how just getting myself into alignment will help anything if he refuses to get into his.

    I don't want to coerce or control him. I want him to want to, but I can't MAKE him want to...so what happens when he doesn't want to but he needs to? LIke go to school?

  5. #15
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    Does me getting into alignment with my IB automatically secure a solution even if my son doesnt not get into alignment? Isnt there ever a time where one person in a relationship gets into their alignment but the other person simply refuses and there is no solution?

  6. #16
    I think that about the school, you need to listen to what your child has to say, why it is he doesn't like it, and that is not a talk you can have in the morning while you're rushing out of the door not to be late. You may also need to discuss this with the teachers. And personally when it comes to these matters I think the child needs to feel that you're on his side, that you're very open to see things from his viewpoint. I mean this is entirely another order than convincing him to use the seatbelt.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by EdenBloom View Post
    Does me getting into alignment with my IB automatically secure a solution even if my son doesnt not get into alignment? Isnt there ever a time where one person in a relationship gets into their alignment but the other person simply refuses and there is no solution?
    Unless you beat the drum of him refusing to align, he will naturally align if you do. And should he not, then that is the time when you need to make peace and even celebrate that he's a free spirit and not going out of his way to make you happy.

  8. #18
    Super Moderator WellBeing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    Interesting you should say this, because it is not my experience at all. Babies need a lot of soothing, they don't soothe themselves like, ever,...
    I don't think you are giving babies enough credit and you might, perhaps, be misremembering things. Babies are soothe themselves, lots. In fact, they came from an environment where there was no one else around to soothe them. So, their way of soothing themselves might look different to you (and, because of that difference, might be unrecognized by you as soothing) because their original way of soothing had no "other" to soothe them. Babies have to learn (first off) what mothers and fathers or others are. And then they have to learn that these others provide them with stuff, like food and a new way of soothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    ...and rely on the mother or father for this, in fact they cry quite a lot as we all know.
    As I said, if they are "relying on" another for this, that's something that they have learned because they came from an environment (which was not Contrast-free) where the only one that they could rely on for their soothing was themselves. And I'm NOT saying that adults "shouldn't" soothe babies and I'm NOT saying that anyone (babies or adults) are doing anything inappropriate in the soothing. I'm saying that when they get to the point of "relying on" (and they get to that point because some adult tells the story that the baby "relies on") they've been trained away from what they naturally know.

    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    And have you ever been close to a toddler having a tantrum?
    Yes. They can eventually tantrum themselves to sleep, if you let them. I was just talking about what babies have to learn. By the time that they are "toddlers," there's been a lot of training going on, hasn't there? Babies and then toddlers learn at such a remarkable rate. But what has the adult been training them? That their manifested conditions are the cause of their discomfort? That their anger is inappropriate and, therefore, Must.Be soothed? That the tantrum is an action journey which will produce a response from the parent? That an adult is required for their soothing? And, of course, the answers will all vary, because this is a world of variety and that variety serves all of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    Or tried to convince a kid it's time to stop playing and get out of the door?
    Now, you're back to that rule/assertion thing and, most likely, at a time when the vibrational car is barreling down that San Francisco hill for both of you, which is why it's a "transition." As you know, that's the time when any vibrational "work" is likely to be ineffective. That's when "hang on; it'll be over soon." It's the same thing with the tantrum.

    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    they completely dislike transitions, because if their focus is somewhere, they don't know that they can willingly put it somewhere else. Then they can easily get distracted by the next sparkly thing but there's nothing deliberate about it.
    But that's a misuse of the label "deliberate." It IS deliberate. They are being deliberate in the use of their emotional guidance system. They are guiding their focus by what feels better: focus on someone's rule to get out the door or something that feels like relief.



    Quote Originally Posted by rose essence View Post
    Interesting you should say this, because it is not my experience at all. Babies need a lot of soothing, they don't soothe themselves like, ever, and rely on the mother or father for this, in fact they cry quite a lot as we all know. And have you ever been close to a toddler having a tantrum? Or tried to convince a kid it's time to stop playing and get out of the door? they completely dislike transitions, because if their focus is somewhere, they don't know that they can willingly put it somewhere else. Then they can easily get distracted by the next sparkly thing but there's nothing deliberate about it.
    Then it's true that usually they're not going to hold a grudge for a week. But also that is not deliberate.

  9. #19
    OK, we'll agree to disagree.
    I am sure you're also in line with what Abraham say, I still don't agree.

  10. #20
    Super Moderator WellBeing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdenBloom View Post
    Does me getting into alignment with my IB automatically secure a solution...
    Don't you think that you've put into your Vortex a desire for his success in the world?
    Don't you think that you've put into your Vortex a desire for his physical thriving?
    Don't you think that you've put into your Vortex a desire for his being well-fed?
    Don't you think that you've put into your Vortex a desire for his health and for him to feel and know his vitality?
    Don't you think that you've put into your Vortex a desire for his body to have all the nutrients it needs to grow and thrive?
    Don't you think that you've put into your Vortex a desire for him to enjoy the moments of his life?
    Don't you think that you've put into your Vortex a desire for him to enjoy the moments of his life when he's eating?
    Don't you think that you've put into your Vortex an understanding that he put himself into this world where there are so many others for his own good reasons?
    Don't you think that you've put into your Vortex a desire for him to fulfill his intentions of coming into this world where there are so many others?
    Don't you think that you've put into your Vortex a desire for him to romp and to play with the others that he's put himself with?

    Don't you think that these are things that he, too, has put into his Vortex for himself?

    So, can you see that by getting into your Vortex you can have access to solutions to a great many things that he wants? But, until you get ITV, you will not have access to any of that. As you're learning, whether he gets into his Vortex is his business and not your job.

    Quote Originally Posted by EdenBloom View Post
    Isnt there ever a time where one person in a relationship gets into their alignment but the other person simply refuses and there is no solution?
    (Now, this is going to sound challenging but bear with me.) And it doesn't even matter when he does get into his Vortex because if you're ITV and he's not, the LoA won't put you together. So, all you really "have to" do is tend to your alignment and let the LoA do its job.

    There are two ways of telling when you're ITV:

    • By how you feel AND
    • By what you're manifesting



    If you think you're ITV and you rendez-vous with him to co-create a power struggle, you can then know that you weren't as ITV or as stable ITV as you had thought. That's good to know.

    When you are ITV, then the LoA will bring you two together when he's ITV and he won't refuse the "solution" that you received from your Vortex, because it will be a "solution" which will satisfy him as well.

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